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Cardio (hartslagmeter)

Discussie in 'Vetverlies en Conditietraining' gestart door Dutchgirl, 13 okt 2002.

Bezoekers aanwezig in Topic (Leden: 0, Gasten: 1)

  1. Dutchgirl

    Dutchgirl Dutch Bodybuilder Topic Starter

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    Hi,


    Ik heb een vraagje over cardio training. Deze vraag is vaak geweest maar ik lees elke keer weer iets anders.
    'S middags cardio ik na mijn krachttraining ongeveer 30 minuten.
    'S ochtends cardio ik op mijn nuchtere maag ongeveer 30-60 minuten.

    Moet ik op mijn harstlag letten of is dit onzin, gewoon gaan tot je dood neer valt?

    Moet ik ook op mijn harstslag letten of is dit bullshit??
    Ehh in mijn geval 220-26 = 194 en daarvan 50-60% of 60-70% nemen?

    p.s. ik slik sinds vandaag wel Xenadrine.

    Groetjes Dutchgirl
     
  2. Robin

    Robin Competitive Bodybuilder Banned

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    Hihi, tot je echt dood neervalt lijkt me geen goed idee Daffy :D

    Ga inderdaad gewoon knallen, en vergeet die hartslag...
     
  3. Dutchgirl

    Dutchgirl Dutch Bodybuilder Topic Starter

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    Ik heb vandaag voor de gein een uur cardio gedaan met mijn hartslagmeter om, maar ik was gewoon niet moe. Hartslag was rond de 150. Mijn hartslag was al 100 voordat ik begon, maar dit komt waarschijnlijk door Xenadrine!
     
  4. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P.

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    Als je voluit gaat met een nuchtere maag zal je veel spiereiwit afbreken dus ik zou 's ochtends wel letten op die hartslag.
     
  5. Dutchgirl

    Dutchgirl Dutch Bodybuilder Topic Starter

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    Hoi T,

    Welke moet ik nemen 50-60% of 60-70%?
    Ik wil mijn hartslagmeter eigenlijk wel gebruiken anders ligt hij maar eenzaam in de kast.

    Groetjes Dutchgirl
     
  6. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P.

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    Normaal 70% maar 60-50% lijkt me beter als je meer vet wil verbranden, vooral in de ochtend.
     
  7. NewbieNeo

    NewbieNeo Dutch Bodybuilder

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    vuistregel als je geen hartslagmeter bij de hand hebt, was toch hard genoeg rennen dat je zweet, maar toch niet gaat hijgen, dus nog een normaal gesprek kan voeren tijdens 't joggen?
     
  8. Robin

    Robin Competitive Bodybuilder Banned

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    Daarom ook eerst wat eiwit voor de cardio.
     
  9. Esperantisto

    Esperantisto Freaky Bodybuilder

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    Hallo Dutchgirl.. als ik jou was, zou ik 's ochtends de cardio op mijn gemakje doen. Het is namelijk de bedoeling om de vetverbranding op gang te krijgen. Als je nog niks hebt gegeten ben je wat slapjes en met een zeer intensieve cardio-oefening ben je zo door je glycogeen heen, want dat wordt dan voornamelijk aangesproken.
    Aan de andere kant blijf je vet verbranden na afloop van een zeer intensieve cardio-oefening. Bovendien geeft een intensieve oefening verrukkelijke endorfines.

    Maar ik wil je toch er vooral op wijzen dat die 220-leeftijd waarde echt volkomen BULLSHIT is! :toilet: Die is zo verschillend van persoon tot persoon dat je die alleen kunt bepalen door bijv. en nu citeer ik letterlijk uit een meeltje die ik vanochtend nog kreeg...

    Another way [to measure max HR] is to do a steady 5-8 min effort, either on the road or trainer with a constant resistance, ride with your HR up to what you think is 95 %. The jump out of the saddle and sprint the last 100 meters, then add 5 beats to that. You will hate for the way you will feel, but believe me it's close to your true max.

    Dus.. zo hard mogelijk gaan meid en als je denkt dood neer te vallen snel naar de meter kijken (of achteraf als die het onthoudt) en daar 5 tellen bij optellen.

    Ik zeg dat vooral omdat ik zelf een extreem lage hartslag heb.. in diepe rust slechts 32 sl/min en mijn max ligt maar rond 170. (ben bijna 40).
     
  10. Esperantisto

    Esperantisto Freaky Bodybuilder

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    Op het active low-carb forum heb ik een antwoord gevonden op je vraag. Het komt er op neer dat je wel degelijk zo hard mogelijk moet trainen 's ochtends op de nuchtere maag en liefst intervaltraining. Echter, niet (veel) langer dan 30 minuten.

    Geknipt uit een nog veel langer antwoord:
    Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning:

    - It makes you feel great all day by releasing mood-enhancing endorphins.
    - It energizes you and wakes you up.
    - It may help regulate your appetite for the rest of the day
    - Your body's circadian rhythm adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day
    - You'll be less likely to blow off your workout when it's out of the way early.
    - You can always make time for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.
    - It increases your metabolic rate for hours after the session is over.

    Of all those benefits, the post exercise increase in your metabolic rate is the one most talked about. Scientists call this afterburn effect "excess postexercise oxygen consumption," or EPOC.

    Looking only at the number and type of calories burned during the session doesn't give you the full picture. You also need to look at the number of calories your elevated metabolism continues to burn after the workout is over.

    That's right -- work out in the morning, and you burn calories all day long.

    You burn somewhere between 10 and 30 calories extra after exercise at an intensity of less than 60 to 65 percent of maximal heart rate (MHR). In other words, a casual stroll on the treadmill will do next to nothing to increase your metabolism.

    EPOC does increase with the intensity (and duration) of the exercise, however. According to Willmore and Costill in Physiology of Sport and Exercise, the EPOC after moderate exercise (75 to 80 percent of MHR) will amount to apporximately .25 calories per minute, or 15 calories per hour. That would provide an additional expenditure of 75 calories. An extra 75 calories is definately no earth shattering, but it does add up over time. In a year, it would mean (in theory) that you'd burn an extra 5.2 pounds of fat from the additional calories expended after your workouts.

    One way to get a significant post-exercise afterburn is high-intensity interval training (HIIT). You alternate brief periods of high intensity work (85% of maximum heart rate or more) with brief periods of lower-intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the day's calorie expenditure.

    In one study scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocalls on 24 hour energy expenditure:

    - Group #1 cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity.

    - Group #2 performed HIIT, cycling for 2 minutes at high intensity followed by 2 minutes at low-intensity.

    The group that performed HIIT (group #2) burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group.

    That would translate to an extra 11.8 pounds of fat burned in one year if they did HIIT five days per week instead of conventional low-intensity training.

    Ironically, weight training has a much higher magnitude of EPOC than aerobic training.

    Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24- hour period from resistance training.

    Yes - that means bodybuilding does burn fat – albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over.

    The lesson is simple: Anyone interested in losing body fat who is not lifting weights should first take up a regimen of bodybuilding, then – and only then – start thinking about the morning cardio!

    A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if it’s done with high intensity, is the possibility of losing muscle. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As we’ve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat.

    Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.

    All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and rebuilding muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.

    How do you build up more muscle than you break down? First, avoid excessive cardio. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, you’ll ultimately spare protein too." You might also want to consider experimenting with the thermogenic ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin stack (or it’s herbal equivalent).

    Second, give your body the proper nutritional support. Losing muscle probably has more to do with inadequate nutrition than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and it’s not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.

    Third, keep training with heavy weights, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.

    Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but you’d like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio?

    One strategy many bodybuilders use is to drink a protein shake or eat a protein only meal 30-60 minutes prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.

    In conclusion, it seems that morning cardio has enough indisputable benefits to motivate most people to set their alarms early. But let’s talk bottom line results here:

    Does it really result in more "real world fat loss" than aerobics performed at other times of the day or after eating? I have to believe it does. Experience, common sense and research all tell me so.

    Dus.. niet alleen cardio in de ochtend, maar ook KT!

    En nu ga ik slapen.. ik was bezig mijn nieuwe cleats aan te brengen en kon het niet laten even een laatste meel te lezen, waarin juist werd gesproken over dit thema!
     
  11. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P.

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    Ben het niet helemaal eens met deze tekst; om vet te kunnen verbranden moet je altijd met een lage hartslag trainen.
    Een snelle hartslag doet je lichaam overgaan op een anaerobische verbranding en kan met gevolg geen optimale vetverbranding teweeg brengen.
    Tuurlijk zal je meer caloriëen verbranden, calorieën uit koolhydraten ja; glucose uit de spieren en wat er nog in je lever over was na het slapen.
    En daarna? Tja omzetting van aminozuren naar glucose.
    Nee, als je optimaal spieren wil behouden kan je niet aan intensieve cardio doen.
     
  12. Esperantisto

    Esperantisto Freaky Bodybuilder

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    Lees nu eerst eens wat geknipt en geplakt is druiloor, eh sorry smalluser.
    Het klopt dat je meer vet tov glucose verbruikt TIJDENS de oefening, maar van een intensieve cardio heb je de rest van de dag profijt door een hoger metabolisme.
    Idem voor KT, dat moet je ook niet met sissy-weights doen, tenzij je zoals ik een blessure hebt en dat lichaamsdeel wilt ontzien.

    Of, zoals ik, VOOR je KT cardio uitvoert,simpelweg omdat je per fiets naar een sportschool moet die 14 km verderop ligt. Dan ga ik ook op mijn gemak om niet uitgewoond aan te komen.

    Als laatste.. heb ik niet geknipt & geplakt, maar voor mensen die bang zijn hun spieren op te vreten, wordt aangeraden te voren een eiwitshake op waterbasis te drinken, dat voorkomt gluconeogenese (zo heet het toch?) en worden ipv de spieren de eiwitten uit je voeding aangesproken...

    Greetz en nu ga ik fietsen!!!

    Esperantist(in)o
     
  13. NewbieNeo

    NewbieNeo Dutch Bodybuilder

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    dus 't maakt op zich niets uit hoe lang je cardio doet, zolang je 't maar op een laag niveau doet, als vet verbranden je doel is?
     
  14. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P.

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    Ik verbrand liever vet tijdens mijn cardio en wat minder vet erna dan bijna geen vet tijdens, een hogere kans op eiwit afbraak en wat meer erna.

    Die eiwit shake voor je training is zoiezo een aanrader maar alle problemen oplossen doet het ook niet.
     
  15. Esperantisto

    Esperantisto Freaky Bodybuilder

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    Godverdegodver... mijn antwoord is in cyberspace verdwenen..

    Sorry zit ik daar te redigeren met html codes en die klote tekst.. :mad: :mad: :mad:

    Maar goed... luister nou en nu ga ik met HOOFDLETTERS schreeuwen. Op de nuchtere maag cardio is HARTSTIKKE goed voor je. MAAR !! Niet langer dan 30 minuten achter elkaar. En denk absoluut niet dat je met cardio alleen afvalt, jazeker, maar dan vnl. spiermassa. Vooral KT blijven doen.
    En nog eens je maximum hartslag is van persoon tot persoon heel verschillend. Du nu die maximaaltest en haal er alles uit wat er in zit. Ik ken meiden van jouw leeftijd die een max van 205 hebben. Dat is wel mooi 10 slagen BOVEN jouw veronderstelde max en dat tikt wel behoorlijk aan als je echt intensief wilt trainen. ER IS NIETS BELANGRIJKER DAN JE PERSOONLIJKE MAX HARTSLAG TE KENNEN... BEPAAL DIE EN GA NIET ZO'N STOMME FORMULE GEBRUIKEN.

    Ik haal het antwoord er maar weer eens bij en nu in zijn geheel. Ik maak de belangrijke delen wel groot...dan gaat er tenminste niet zoveel fout!!!

    De schrijver die zich Trainer Dan noemt heeft een webstek op [Link niet meer beschikbaar]


    I posted this before somewhere on the board, but it warrants posting again ...

    It's long, but full of good info:

    The arguement in favor of fasted early morning cardio goes something like this:

    (1) WHEN YOU WAKE UP in the morning after an 8-to-12 hour overnight fast, your body's stores of gylcogen are somewhat depleted. Doing cardio in that state causes your body to mobilize more fat because of the unavailability of glycogen.

    (2) EATING CAUSES A RELEASE of insulin, which interferes with the mobilization of bodyfat. Less insulin is present in the morning; therefore you burn more bodyfat when you do your cardio in the morning.

    (3) THERE'S LESS CARBOHYDRATE (glucose) in your bloodstream after an overnight fast. With less glucose available, you'll burn more fat.

    (4) IF YOU EAT IMMEDIATELY before a workout, you have to burn off carbs you just ate before tapping into stored bodyfat.

    (5) WHEN YOU DO CARDIO IN THE MORNING, your metabolism stays elevated for a period of time after the workout is over. If you do cardio in the evening, you will benefit from it, but you fail to take advantage of teh afterburn effect because your metobolic rate drops dramatically as soon as you go to sleep.

    Research supports this theory. A study performed at Kansas State University and published in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise showed the subjects burned a kilogram (2.2 lbs.) of fat SOONER when the exercised in a fasted state in the morining than when the did it later in the day.

    The researchers measured respitory gas exchange, caloric expenditure, and carbohydrate/fatty acid metabolism and found that the amount of fat burned during aerobic exercise amounted to 67% of the total energy expenditure in the morning after a 12 hour fast. That's SUBSTANTIALLY HIGHER than the 50% expenditure achieved when the subjects did the same exercise later in the day or after eating.

    A similar study published in the Journal of Applied Physiology looked at the effects of aerobic exercise on lipid oxidation in fed vs. fasted states. The researchers conculded, "Our results support the hypothesis that endurance training ENHANCES lipid oxidation in men after a 12-hour overnight fast."

    Yet another paper, "Optimizing Exercise for Fat Loss," reports, "The ability of exercise to selectively promote fat oxidation should be optimized if exercise is done during morning fasted metabolism."

    When it comes to "real world fat loss", few people have more experience than Chris Aceto (nutrition guru/advsior to many pro bodybuilders).

    Aceto is a firm believer in morning cardio. He unequivocally states, "The FASTEST WAY to tap into stored bodyfat is to do cardio first thing in the morning on an empty stomach."

    Aceto believes that looking at calories only in terms of energy in vs. energy out is "limited thinking." He asserts that there are more factors involved in real-world results than just energy balance. It all comes back to the old arguement, are all calories created equal?

    "Absolutely not!" Aceto declares. "A calorie in not just a calorie, and exercise physiologists freak out when they hear that."

    "These guys are working from the assumption that it's just a matter of calories in vs. calories out, period," Chris continues. "With that line of reasoning, they'd be forced to say that if I consumed nothing but candy bars and Coca-Cola and took in 100 calories less than maintenance, I'd lose weight. We know it's not that simple. YOU HAVE TO ACCOUNT FOR RATIOS OF CARBS, PROTEIN AND FAT."

    "Then there's MEAL FREQUENCY: From real-world results we know you PUT ON MORE MUSCLE MASS from five or six meals a day than from three meals a day. There are more things involved than just calories."

    There are MANY OTHER REASONS you might want to consider MAKING MORNING CARDIO A PART OF YOUR DAILY ROUTINE. Landry, despite his doubts about whether the fuel source matters admits, "If I had to pick a SINGLE FACTOR I thought was most IMPORTANT in a succesful weight-loss program, it would have to be EXERCISE FIRST THING IN THE MORNING"

    Here are some of the additional benefits of doing cardio early in the morning:

    - It makes you FEEL GREAT all day by releasing mood-enhancing ENDORPHINS.

    - It ENERGIZES you and WAKES YOU UP.

    - It may help REGULATE YOUR APPETITE for the rest of the day

    - Your body's CIRCADIAN RHYTHM adjusts to your morning routine, making it easier to wake up at the same time every day

    - You'll be LESS LIKELY TO BLOW OFF (uitstellen bedoelt hij) your workout when it's out of the way early.

    - You can ALWAYS MAKE TIME for exercise by setting your alarm earlier in the morning.

    - It INCREASES YOUR METABOLIC RATE FOR HOURS after the session is over.

    Of all those benefits, the post exercise increase in your metabolic rate is the one most talked about. Scientists call this AFTERBURN EFFECT "excess postexercise oxygen consumption," or EPOC.

    Looking only at the number and type of calories burned during the session doesn't give you the full picture. You also need to look at the number of calories your elevated metabolism continues to burn after the workout is over.

    That's right -- WORK OUT IN THE MORNING, AND YOU BURN CALORIES ALL DAY LONG.

    You burn somewhere between 10 and 30 calories extra after exercise at an intensity of less than 60 to 65 percent of maximal heart rate (MHR). In other words, a CASUAL STROLL ON THE THREADMILL WILL DO NEXT TO NOTHING TO INCREASE YOUR METABOLISM. [dus niet kalm aandoen!!!]

    EPOC does INCREASE WITH THE INTENSITY (and DURATION) of the exercise, however. According to Willmore and Costill in Physiology of Sport and Exercise, the EPOC after moderate exercise (75 to 80 percent of MHR) will amount to approximately .25 calories per minute, or 15 calories per hour. That would provide an additional expenditure of 75 calories. An extra 75 calories is definately no earth shattering, but it does add up over time. In a year, it would mean (in theory) that you'd burn an extra 5.2 pounds of fat from the additional calories expended after your workouts.

    One way to get a SIGNIFICANT POST-EXERCISE AFTERBURN is high-intensity interval training (HIIT). You alternate brief periods of high intensity work (85% of maximum heart rate or more) with brief periods of lower-intensity work. Studies on the effects of HIIT have demonstrated a much higher EPOC, which can add substantially to the day's calorie expenditure.

    In one study scientists from the University of Alabama compared the effects of two exercise protocalls on 24 hour energy expenditure:

    - Group #1 cycled for 60 minutes at a moderate intensity.

    - Group #2 performed HIIT, cycling for 2 minutes at high intensity followed by 2 minutes at low-intensity.

    The group that performed HIIT (group #2) burned 160 more calories in 24 hours than the low intensity group.

    That would translate to an extra 11.8 pounds of fat burned in one year if they did HIIT five days per week instead of conventional low-intensity training.

    Ironically, WEIGHT TRAINING HAS A MUCH HIGHER MAGNITUDE of EPOC than aerobic training.

    Studies have shown increases in metabolic rate of as much as 4-7% over a 24- hour period from resistance training.

    Yes - that means BODYBUILDING DOES BURN FAT – albeit through an indirect mechanism. For someone with an expenditure of 2500 calories per day, that could add up to 100 - 175 extra calories burned after your weight training workout is over.

    bericht was te lang.. ik stuur er een tweede achteraan...
     
    Laatst bewerkt door een moderator: 3 okt 2017
  16. Esperantisto

    Esperantisto Freaky Bodybuilder

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    The lesson is simple: ANYONE INTERESTED IN LOSING BODY FAT WHO IS NOT LIFTING WEIGHTS SHOULD FIRST TAKE UP A REGIMEN OF BODYBUILDING, THEN - and only then – START THINKING ABOUT THE MORNING CARDIO!

    A common concern about doing cardio in the fasted state, especially if it’s done with high intensity, is the POSSIBILITY OF LOSING MUSCLE. After an overnight fast, glycogen, blood glucose and insulin are all low. As we’ve already concluded, this is an optimum environment for burning fat.

    Unfortunately, it may also be an optimum environment for burning muscle because carbohydrate fuel sources are low and levels of the catabolic stress hormone cortisol are high. It sounds like morning cardio might be a double-edged sword, but there are ways to avert muscle loss.

    All aerobic exercise will have some effect on building muscle, but as long as you don’t overdo it, you shouldn’t worry about losing muscle. It's a fact that muscle proteins are broken down and used for energy during aerobic exercise. But you are constantly breaking down and rebuilding muscle tissue anyway. This process is called "protein turnover" and it’s a daily fact of life. Your goal is to tip the scales slightly in favor of increasing the anabolic side and reducing the catabolic side just enough so you stay anabolic and you gain or at least maintain muscle.

    HOW DO YOU BUILD UP MORE MUSCLE THAN YOU BREAK DOWN?
    First, AVOID EXCESSIVE CARDIO. Aceto suggests limiting your cardio on an empty stomach to 30 minutes, and then it would be "highly unlikely that amino acids will be burned as fuel." He also mentions that "a strong cup of coffee should facilitate a shifting to burn more fat and less glycogen. If you can spare glycogen, you’ll ultimately spare protein too." You might also want to consider experimenting with the thermogenic ephedrine-caffeine-aspirin stack (or it’s herbal equivalent). [Efedrine lijkt me niet zo slim, aspirine kan geen kwaad, ofschoon ik efedrine wel 1x heb gebruikt tijdens een 400km tocht, maar ik kreeg er de bibberaties van, ik reageer toch al heel sterk op koffie]

    Second, GIVE YOUR BODY THE PROPER NUTRITIONAL SUPPORT. LOSING MUSCLE probably has MORE TO DO WITH INADEQUATE NUTRITION than with excessive aerobics. Provide yourself with the proper nutritional support for the rest of the day, including adequate meal frequency, protein, carbohydrates and total calories, and it’s not as likely that there will be a net loss of muscle tissue over each 24-hour period.

    Third, KEEP TRAINING WITH HEAVY WEIGHTS, even during a fat loss phase. Using light weights and higher reps thinking that it will help you get more "cut" is a mistake: What put the muscle on in the first place is likely to help you keep it there.

    Still petrified of losing your hard-earned muscle, but you’d like to take advantage of the fat-burning and metabolism-boosting effects of morning cardio?

    One strategy many bodybuilders use is to DRINK A PROTEIN SHAKE or eat a PROTEIN ONLY MEAL 30-60 minutes prior to the morning session. The protein without the carbs will minimize the insulin response and allow you to mobilize fat while providing amino acids to prevent muscle breakdown.

    In conclusion, it seems that MORNING CARDIO HAS ENOUGH INDISPUTABLE BENEFITS TO MOTIVATE MOST PEOPLE TO SET THEIR ALARMS EARLY. But let’s talk bottom line results here:

    DOES IT REALLY RESULT IN MORE "REAL WORLD FAT LOSS" THAN AEROBICS PERFORMED AT OTHER TIMES OF THE DAY OR AFTER EATING? I have to believe it does. Experience, common sense and research all tell me so.

    Nevertheless, this will obviously continue to be an area of much debate, and clearly, more research is needed. In the meantime, while the scientists are busy in their labs measuring respiratory exchange ratios, caloric expenditures and rates of substrate utilization, I’m going to keep waking up at 6:00 AM every morning to get on my elliptical

    Dus de bottomline is.. niet langer dan 30 minuten om spierafbraak te voorkomen.. nou dan mag ik wel gigaspieren aankweken in de winter. Ik ben gewend in het voorjaar tochten van 200 km en langer te rijden (da's dus minimaal 10 uur fietsen).

    Greetz Esperantist(in)o

    P.S. En zet 'm op he! Ik ben een beetje hyper van de eerste KT vanochtend. Heb wel voor het weggaan die kokhalsolie naar binnen gewerkt met een beetje overgebleven slagroom erbij. Viel toen best mee. Niet nuchter nee, maar dan heb ik die smerige olie ook weer weggewerkt.
     
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