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creatine tijdens de kuur?


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elberto

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wat vinden jullie ervan?
Creatine tijdens de kuur of na het kuur?
 

Big-T

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Erna is zeker een goed idee maar tijdens kan ook zeker geen kwaad.
 

bestoldschool

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Ik hoor hier verschillende meningen over.
1) Door gebruik van AS worden de nieren al extra belast en de extra creatine zou dit verergeren.

2) Mijn maat doet regelmatig bloedonderzoek (elke maand) omdat hij zwaar aan de as zit (3gr test/week, 80mg dbol/150mg anadrol tegelijk enz) en hij neemt soms ook alleen een test/creatine/insuline kuur die hem geen problemen opleveren, blijkend uit bloedonderzoek

Ikzelf heb al hoge creatine waarden als ik alleen creatine gebruik en die waarden zijn weer normaal als ik creatine stop en 2 weken clean ben en veel water drink.

Interessant om hier meer over te horen.
 

patser928

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ik denk dat je het best na de kuur iets extra's kunt gebruiken in de hoop iets meer van je kuur over te houden
 

jon

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Volgens mij zijn er geen reden om creatine gebruik tijdens een kuur te stoppen. gebruik het zelf non stop
 

bestoldschool

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Dus omdat jij het non stop gebruikt is er geen reden om te stoppen voor anderen?
 

Soulreaver

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AS leggen al druk op de lever en nieren, creatine legt extra druk op de nieren.. zelf zou ik het erna doen, je valt dan toch in een gat en met creatine kan je dan proberen dat iets op te vangen..
 

Big-T

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Idd erna is misschien wel beter om het gewichtverlies ergens te compenseren.
 

Guest

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Waar staat geschreven dat creatine je nieren belast??
 

serge

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creatine tijdens je kuur heeft geen toegevoegde waarde dus zondegeld,je kan beter na je kuur weer beginnen

greets serge
 

Big-T

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Ik weet niet, een hogere eiwit synthese door de steroiden kan goed samen gaan met een hogere creatine/ATP gehalte het een sluit het ander niet uit.
 

serge

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ik bedoel eigenlijk dat je gains er niet meer door zullen worden

greets
 

Big-T

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Nee ik vermoed kracht ietsje meer, misschien wat exra water dat je gaat vasthouden.
 

Soulreaver

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Originally posted by admin
Idd erna is misschien wel beter om het gewichtverlies ergens te compenseren.

behalve na een cuttingcycle, dan zou ik geen creatine nemen ivm het extra vocht..
 

Anoniem1001

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Creatine moet je in eigenlijk net zoals as gebruiken. Als je 3 maanden aaneengesloten gebruikt zal je ook 3 maanden moeten rusten. je nieren krijgen op hun donder van creatine en je lichaam raakt verzadigd naar een langere periode. Nadeel als je een hele lange tijd creatine gebruikt dat je eigen aanmaak helemaal stopt en niet meer op gang komt.
 

Big-T

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Achterhaalde mythes!!

Gaan we weer met de achterhaalde mythes, hier hebben 3Xl en ikzelf ook al meerdere malen studies over gepost dus zuig het niet uit me duim als je dat denkt.

1.
Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes.

Poortmans JR, Francaux M

Chimie Physiologique, Institut Superieur d'Education Physique et de Kinesitherapie, Universite Libre de Bruxelles, Brussels, Belgium.

PURPOSE: Oral creatine supplementation is widely used in sportsmen and women. Side effects have been postulated, but no thorough investigations have been conducted to support these assertions. It is important to know whether long-term oral creatine supplementation has any detrimental effects on kidney function in healthy population. METHODS: Creatinine, urea, and plasma albumin clearances have been determined in oral creatine consumers (10 months to 5 yr) and in a control group. RESULTS: There were no statistical differences between the control group and the creatine consumer group for plasma contents and urine excretion rates for creatinine, urea, and albumin. Clearance of these compounds did not differ between the two groups. Thus, glomerular filtration rate, tubular reabsorption, and glomerular membrane permeability were normal in both groups. CONCLUSIONS: Neither short-term, medium-term, nor long-term oral creatine supplements induce detrimental effects on the kidney of healthy individuals.

Med Sci Sports Exerc 1999 Aug;31(:1108-10

2.
"The Effect of Creatine mtCK and CreaT Protein Expression Following Resistance Training.

Parise, G., A. Parshad, T. Walliman, and M.A. Tarnopolsky. The effect of creatine on mtCK and creaT protein expression following resistance training. Can J Appl Physiol. 25(5): 396, 2000."

Previous animal research has shown that creatine supplementation may cause a down regulation of creatine transporters in rats. This study examined the effects of long-term use of creatine (10 g/day for 8 weeks) in humans on creatine transport proteins as well as mitochondrial creatine kinase. Subjects underwent 8 weeks of creatine supplementation in combination with resistance training. At the end of the study there was no change in the amount of creatine transporters. Furthermore, the results showed that mitochondrial creatine kinase activity increased in response to training (this is the enzyme responsible for forming creatine phosphate). Therefore, the results suggest that long-term creatine supplementation by humans does not induce a down regulation in the amount of creatine transporters.

Conclusion: creatine monohydrate can be used year round without diminished results due to transporter down regulation.

Lees deze FAQ ook maar even door, staan de belangrijkste mythes nog even op een rij:

CREATINE TRUTHS & MYTHS

1.The More Creatine You Take, The Better.

You've seen some sick bodybuilders chugging down 10-20 grams of creatine. Is it worth it? According to scientists at St. Francis Xavier University in Nova Scotia, at 0.1 grams per kilogram of bodyweight, male athletes excreted 46% of the ingested creatine within 24 hours. For a 220 pound lifter, this means that if he consumes 10g of creatine, 46%, or 4.6g of creatine, is wasted. In another study performed at the Human Performance Laboratory at Ball State University, scientists confirmed that lower doses of creatine monohydrate (5g/day) are effective, and that results can even be achieved without a loading phase.

2.Creatine Loading Is Mandatory.

Once again, research is proving that less creatine is needed to deliver results. The research cited above also suggests that creatine loading may be nothing more than a waste. Should you load? In most cases, probably not. If you're an elite athlete, a professional bodybuilder or competitive powerlifter, you may want to consider loading, just in case. For the rest of us, 5g is all it takes.

3.Creatine Harms The Kidneys And Liver.

Unless you have a pre-existing medical condition, creatine use should not damage your kidneys or liver. Most of the hype has been the result of anecdotal reports. In one study which tracked healthy athletes over a five-year period, football players who used creatine at levels up to 15.75g of creatine per day showed no effect on markers of renal or kidney stress. In another study conducted by Dr. Kerry Kuehl at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland and presented at the 2000 annual meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine, the kidney function of 36 healthy male and female athletes who consumed 10g of creatine per day was examined. After twelve weeks, Dr. Kuehl found that creatine did not adversely affect kidney function.

4.Creatine Causes Excessive Water Retention.

More bullshit. A recent double-blind, placebo-controlled study found that, after three months of creatine use, test subjects showed no significant increase in body water. In fact, the creatine group showed greater gains in total body mass and fat-free mass. Best of all, this recent study employed the latest in body composition measurements-deuterated water isotopic analysis which utilizes a non-radioactive "tracer". Now it is possible that some inferior-grade creatine may actually promote water gain that results in a soft, puffy look. However, this can be due to several reasons. One, it may not be due to the creatine, but excess sodium. When cheaply manufactured, excess sodium remains in the finished product.

5.Creatine Causes Cramping.

The idea that creatine use causes muscle cramping is anecdotal with no clinical evidence to support this claim. On the contrary, clinical studies show that creatine use is not associated with cramping. In one study, researchers examine 16 men who either supplemented with creatine or a placebo. Under specific dehydration conditions, the occurrence of cramping and tightness were reported in both groups, but "nothing that would suggest a greater incidence associated with creatine supplementation." Two other studies conducted at Arkansas State University in Jonesboro fond that creatine use by 61 Division I athletes during training camps had no effects on the incidence of muscle cramps, injury or illness. These athletes used 15-25g per day on the loading phase, and another 5g/day as maintenance.

6.Creatine Needs To Be Taken With Grape Juice.

The concept behind taking creatine with sugar such as grape juice is sound. But the trick is not the grape juice per se. It has to do with insulin's function in the body. For creatine uptake to be enhanced, insulin release should be encouraged. Insulin functions as a kind of creatine pump, pushing it into muscles. If you're going to stick to juice, make sure you get at least 100g of juice for every 5g of creatine. Depending on your level and your goals, juice loaded with sugars may not be suitable. Newer research indicates that you can take your creatine with protein for the same results. A new study reports that taking 5g of creatine with 50g of protein/47g of carbs produced the same results as taking 5g with 96g of carbs.

7.Creatine Works Better In A Liquid Form.

In fact, in liquid form, you may not even be getting creatine, but creatinine, a by-product of creatine breakdown. Creatine, in powder form, is extremely stable. When exposed to an acidic environment or moisture for a long time, creatine will begin to break down into worthless creatinine. The citric and phosphoric acids found in many liquid creatines, which are used to preserve the shelf life of these products, actually helps break creatine down. So as a rule of thumb, if you're going to make a creatine shake, drink it by the end of the day.

8.All Creatines Are The Same.

Just as there is a difference between $100 champagne and $15 dollar champagne, there's a difference between high-quality creatine and inferior-grade creatine. Traditionally, Chinese creatine is a lower quality product, with more contaminants such as creatinine, sodium, dicyandiamide, and dihydrotriazine. German creatine, from companies such as SKW (Creapure™), are cleaner, purer products.

9.New Forms Of Creatine Work Better.

News flash: no form of creatine has been proven in published studies to work better than plain old creatine monohydrate powder. Whether you're spending your extra dollar on effervescent, liquid or chewable creatine, the most important consideration is the creatine. And whether you decide to splurge and buy creatine citrate or creatine phosphate remember one thing: the major clinical studies have been performed on plain creatine monohydrate powder. Numerous studies have also shown that creatine powder is easily assimilated by the body. So unless you've got money to burn, stick with creatine monohydrate powder. Products such as effervescent creatine or creatine chewables offer convenience and a novel way to take plain old creatine powder. For real value, there's no better choice than powder.

10.Creatine Will Affect By Body'S Anabolic Hormone Function.

While creatine can boost strength and lean mass, research from the University of Leuven in Belgium has shown that it doesn't not alter anabolic hormone response to training. These hormones included growth hormone, testosterone, and cortisol.

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This research also might suggest that stacking creatine with prohormones or GH secretagogues might be a beneficial.
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11.Creatine Is Ideal For All Athletes.

Some athletes stand to benefit a great deal, others very little. Athletes who require sudden, high intensity bursts of power and strength are ideal candidates for creatine supplements. These athlete might include powerlifters, bodybuilders, sprinters, football, baseball, and basketball players, and the like. Endurance athletes or those who participate in sports which require steady aerobic output may not benefit from creatine use.

12.Creatine Must Be Taken At A Specific Time.

While it has been proven that you can maximize creatine uptake by taking it with a 1:1 ratio of protein to carbs, no real evidence suggests that there's a best time to take creatine. As a supplement, creatine increases your body's pool of creatine. Whether you take it in the morning, afternoon, or evening probably won't make a significant difference. For convenience sake, you might take it with your post-training protein/carb shake.

13.Cycling Creatine Will Produce Better Results. False.

There's no significant evidence which shows that cycling creatine is better than taking it continuously.

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There's no compelling proof which shoes that creatine supplementation in athletes will down-regulate the body's own ability to produce creatine.
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14.You Can Get Enough Creatine From Your Diet.

The average person gets only about 1g of creatine per day from his diet. When you cook your meals, you also destroy a good part of the creatine found in foods such as beef, cod, salmon, and herring.


Sources
Brenner M, et al. The effect of creatine supplementation during resistance training in women. J Strength Cond Res 2000;14(2): 207-213.
Burke DG, et al. "The effect of 7 days of creatine supplementation on 24-hour urinary creatine excretion. J Strength Cond Res 2001;15(1):59-62.
Eijnde B, et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2001;33:449-453.
Greenhaff PL, Steenge GR, Simpson EJ. Protein and carbohydrate-induced augmentation of whole body creatine retention in humans. J Appl Physiol 2000;89:1165-71.
Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Walliman T. Creatine supplementation I n health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle. Mol Cell Biochem 1998;184:427-437.
Poortmans JR, et al. Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes. Med Sci Sports Exer 1999;31(8):1108-1110.
Poortmans JR, Francaux M. Adverse effects of creatine supplementation. Sports Med 2000;30:155-170.
Vogel RA, et al. Creatine supplementation: effect on supramaximal exercise performance at two levels of acute hypohydration. J Strength Cond Res 2000;14(2) 214-219.
 

ErEf

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Ik snap nog steeds niet waarom crea als zoiets speciaals bezien wordt. Speciaal in de zin van alle voors zonder de tegens, dat wel.
Men spreekt over een crea kuur? Noem het zoals je wilt, maar ik zie het meer als supplement, zoals vitamine C.
Idd dat onderzoek liet ook zien dat een laadfase niet nodig is, dat je lichaam niet stopt met het zelf aan te maken als je stopt met het innemen van crea.
Ik heb zelf niets gemerkt van een opgeblazen gevoel. Creatine trekt water in de cel, niet onder je huid.<hr>Cell volumization leads to more water inside the cells, making muscle bigger and firmer. This often enhances muscularity and also creates an improved environment for muscle growth.<hr> stukje sleur en pleur van bb.com:
Is the weight gain water or muscle? Some people have suggested that because the gains are so rapid, they must be caused by water retention. Although it is generally accepted that the initial weight gain may promote some water retention, a number of recent studies do not support this. These studies indicate that although the body's total water is increased, the increase is proportional to the weight gained. Since muscle is abour 80% water, if you were to gain 10lbs. of muscle, 8lbs. of the weight gain would be water, and the body's total percentage of water would not be affected. Many studies show that long-term creatine supplementation increases fat-free mass, and has no effect on the percentage of total body water.
 
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ErEf

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Originally posted by Diver2000
Creatine moet je in eigenlijk net zoals as gebruiken. Als je 3 maanden aaneengesloten gebruikt zal je ook 3 maanden moeten rusten. je nieren krijgen op hun donder van creatine en je lichaam raakt verzadigd naar een langere periode. Nadeel als je een hele lange tijd creatine gebruikt dat je eigen aanmaak helemaal stopt en niet meer op gang komt.
Dat laatste zinnetje klopt niet.
Je aanmaak stopt wel omdat er meer dan voldoende aanwezig is, maar wanneer je stopt met creatine te supplementeren gaat je lichaam gewoon weer zelf creatine aanmaken.
 

oldy

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Originally posted by admin
Ik weet niet, een hogere eiwit synthese door de steroiden kan goed samen gaan met een hogere creatine/ATP gehalte het een sluit het ander niet uit.
Ik heb ergens op BB.com gelezen dat sommige Amerikaanse bb-ers juist hoog in de creatine gaan (15gr ED) als ze aan het kuren zijn. Wat admin zegt klinkt me dus ook best wel aannemelijk. Kan het zelf misschien proberen bij mijn kuur.
 

Big-T

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Originally posted by oldy
Ik heb ergens op BB.com gelezen dat sommige Amerikaanse bb-ers juist hoog in de creatine gaan (15gr ED) als ze aan het kuren zijn. Wat admin zegt klinkt me dus ook best wel aannemelijk. Kan het zelf misschien proberen bij mijn kuur.
15 gram is BS, in de bovenstande FAQ in mijn reactie staat duidelijk een studie die zegt dat 5 gram net zo effectief is, al de rest gaat gewoon verloren.

Verder tijdens een kuur is ook bewezen dat het extra voordelen biedt:

While creatine can boost strength and lean mass, research from the University of Leuven in Belgium has shown that it doesn't not alter anabolic hormone response to training. These hormones included growth hormone, testosterone, and cortisol.
This research also might suggest that stacking creatine with prohormones or GH secretagogues might be a beneficial.
 

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