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Mechano growth factor

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Cools

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Research on mechano growth factor: its potential for optimising physical training as well as misuse in doping
http://bjsm.bmj.com/content/39/11/787.full

After resistance exercise, the IGF-I gene is spliced towards MGF which “kick starts” hypertrophy and repair of local muscle damage by activating the muscle stem cells as well as anabolic processes. Interestingly, loss of muscle mass in old age and in certain diseases is associated with an impaired ability to express MGF. In these conditions it seems that the muscle stem (satellite) cell pool is not adequately replenished.
 

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Een paar grepen over (PEG) MGF icm IGF-1 (LR3)

Zie bijlage voor MGF Handbook. De info komt uit 2006, het kan dus zijn de hedendaags protocol geoptimaliseerd is. Echter blijven feiten nog steeds feiten dus wel nuttige info.
De PDF is beveiligd dus ik kan geen teksten eruit halen om het te posten.


Wel heb ik op een ander forum nog een uitleg van iemand gevonden dat wat recenter is. Wellicht is zijn protocol wel de beste maar om het in de praktijk toe te passen...:rolleyes: ..imo is het protocol uit het MGF handboek toch praktischer.

New method of using PEG-MGF & IGF-1 LR3

Proliferation and Differentiation. What do these two words mean, how do these processes promote muscle growth, and how do we optimize them through the use of PEG-MGF and IGF-1? Please allow me to break this down into its most simple form. MGF is the hormone responsible for expanding our pool of stem cells. The expansion of these cells is what's known as proliferation. Proliferation is the 1st step in the process of forming new muscle cells. Once these stems cells have recieved the message to proliferate through the actions of MGF, what type of cells they become, whether muscle or otherwise, depends on the message they later recieve from other hormones.

IGF-1 is what's know as a differentiator. Differentiation is the process responsible for turning immature stem cells into a defined cell type. When a stem cell is exposed to the actions of IGF-1, the cell type created is a muscle cell. However, it is very important to note that each of these processes must take place at the correct time. If one process is begun before the other has finished its work, either the entire process is short-circuited, or partial results are achieved. When a muscle(s) is exposed to stress (such as weight training), it's first response is to produce localized MGF. MGF is produced only in the muscle, not in the liver like GH mediated IGF-1 production. After training, It is vital that MGF be allowed to fully perform its function of proliferation before IGF-1 is introduced into the system. Otherwise, the inhibitory actions IGF1 will immediately halt the proliferation process and reduce the total number of stem cells available for differentiation into muscle cells. In other words, introducing IGF-1 at the wrong time will limit our rate of muscle growth.

In the past, the typical maner of administering PEG MGF and IGF-1 would be to use 200-300 mg of PEG-MGF immediately post-workout 2X weekly, followed by an injection of IGF-1 the other 5 days per week. In principle this theory is sound, as the PEG-MGF will expand the number of available stem cells, which can then subsequently be differentiated by IGF-1 the following day. However, there are 3 significant problems with this method of use. For one, since PEG-MGF is typically injected only 2 X per week, the BB'r is usually going to choose to inject it after training the bodyparts he most wants to improve, but what happens if he also trains a bodypart on the days he adminsters IGF-1? Being that IGF-1 is typicallly administered on the days PEG-MGF isn't (which is usually 5 days per week), it is highly likley that the BB'r is going to be training on at least some of the days he adminsters IGF-1. That means that on those days, the growth process involving these growth factors will be short-circuited, due to the inhibitory actions of exogenous IGF-1, and the end result will be less than optimal muscle growth.

The second issue which arises due to the current pattern of use, is that by using PEG-MGF on non-consecutive days 2X per week, the proliferation process will always be cut short due to the constant interloping of exogenous IGF-1. Because of this, the number of available stem cell will never grow very large and the potential for differenetiation will remain limited. The 3rd issue is in regards to PEG-MGF dosing....it is too light. It is now proposed that using 2 mg per week is much closer to the ideal dosage than the commonly prescribed 400 mg per week. If we use prior research as a gauage for determining proper dosing, it would point to our current dosing guidelines as being inadequate. It is a certainty that higher dosages of PEG-MGF are necessary in order to maximize stem cell proliferation. Although user experiences in this dosing range are currently minimal, what has been witnessed does appear to confirm this. In addition, the proposal is scientifically sound.

Now that I have explained the logic for why the older methods of administration are believed to be flawed in their approach, I will go over how to implement the new method of administration. The PEG-MGF molecule is always used over standard MGF, as MGF has a very short active life, being only minutes in length, while PEG-MGF will stay active for days. This enables the PEG version to deliver a much more pronounced effect. It is also important to remember that the PEG attachment does not alter the effects of the MGF molecule. The PEG attachment acts purely to extend its duration of action. As for what form of IGF-1 should be chosen, I believe IGF-1 LR3 is the superior choice only because of its greatly extended active life, which is about 24 hours in length. DES IGF-1 is a very potent form of IGF-1, being about 4X as potent as IGF-1 LR3 on a mcg basis, but its active life is only about 20 minutes. So, unless one was willing and able to administer DES many times per day, LR3 remains the better option for whole-body growth. DES is superior for site enhancment and will also deliver systematic benefits, but when it comes to a single daily injection, DES cannot trump LR3 when it comes to its whole-body benefits.

In contrast to most other injectable drugs, PEG-MGF cannot be administered with a singular inject. Several micro-injects must be used because even though PEG-MGF is systematic in its effects, the injected muscle will still recieve a greater amount of benefit. Why? While both steroid esters and the PEG attachemnt serve primarily to extend the active life of the steroid, there are critical differences between the two. With esterfied AAS, the ester must first be cleaved from the steroid before it is able to attach to the AR and cause muscle growth. This is why esterfied steroids do not cause site growth (although some users think they do due to the inflammation and subsqeuent swelling which occurs), as the steroid will already have entered circulation and become systemtaic prior to the ester being cleaved from the steroid molecule. However, unlike AAS, the PEG portion of the drug does not need to be cleaved off before it is able to attach to its receptor site and deliver its message. Also unlike AAS, the MGF molecule (whether it is MGF or PEG-MGF) communicates through cell to cell interaction. Once the PEG-MGF comes in contact with a muscle cell (such as during an injection), the affected muscle cell will relay the same signal to the adjoining muscle cells. More so, this signal will eventually stop being passed along to adjoining cells, making a single inject unsuitable for treating the entire muscle.

Another characteristic of PEG-MGF, which plays a role in the way it is administered, is the fact that it causes a disproportionate degree of muscle growth in the injected muscle, compared to the rest of the body. However, with PEG-MGF being systematic in nature, one might ask why this happens, being that the compound will eventually spread around to the entire body anyway. This is a question I would have to research, so I cannot answer it right now. Still, I speculate that there may be 3 reasons for this. For one, the injected muscle is directly exposed to the entire amount of the drug on a first come basis. Two, the compound will immediately begin attaching to receptor sites as soon as it is injected, likley using up a substantial portion of the drug before it has a chance to become systematic. Three, due to the micro-injection technique, which is explained below, the entire muscle is exposed to the actions of the drug in large quantities.

Below I will lay out the micro-injection technique. It is a pain in the ass to be sure, but due to the use of 30-31g. insulin needles, this process is made much more tolerable. The micro-injection process involves injecting a small portion of the drug into multiple locations within the same muscle. In the case of smaller bodyparts, this can be as many as 14-16 injections, split bi-laterally. In larger bodyparts, 20 injections split bilaterally is more appropriate. Remember, MGF communicates its actions cell to cell, so this micro-injection technique must be incorporated into one's protocol if optimal results are desired. Using a small amount of injections will drastically limit the amount ofuscle cells which are exposed to the actions of the MGF...and a single injection will severely limit the drug's ability to turn on stem cell proliferation. Now, before anyone is turned away by the sheer volume of injections, it should be noted that this only needs to be performed twice weekly. In addition, the use of 30-31g. 1/2 inch insulin pins reduces scar tissue build-up to less than what would be experienced with just a couple injections using a 22 g. needle. the pain factor is almost a non-issue, as it should be near painless. Lastly, this only needs to be performed for 4 weeks, after which point MGF injections cease and are then followed by a single sub-q IGF-1 LR3 injection per day for the next 4 weeks. It is up to the individual if they want to repeat the program after its conclusion.


Here is an example of how one might target their chest with this program:

Weeks 1-4
Day #1 (post-workout): Inject 1 mg of PEG-MGF into the pecs. Split this 1 mg up into twenty 50 mcg injections and place 10 injects on the right side of the chest, followed by 10 injects in the left side of the chest. Make sure each injection is placed fairly evenly apart. Use a 30-31g. 1/2 inch syringe.

Day #2 (about 3-4 days after day 1): Same as above.


Weeks 5-8
Days 1-28: IGF-1 LR3 @ 100 mcg once daily




Originally Posted by dazc
personally cant see its going to do much over a single shot.

I can see whats being said about the logic of the micro inject, and exposing the muscle to it etc, but IMO blood flow will have cleared the peptide from the muscle quickly, it wont stay there for any length of time. a peg peptide with an active life in the days is always going to be largely systemic in its actions IMO.

You're correct. A "portion" of the PEG-MGF will go systematic quickly, where it will live out the majority of its active life by attaching to random receptor sites. However, we already know that PEG-MGF is effective in helping to bring up a targeted muscle, but one massive injection would not be even close to optimal for bringing up that muscle, especially a large muscle, as much of that muscle's receptor sites would not be exposed to the actions of any PEG-MGF at a concentrated level. When injecting PEG-MGF right into a muscle, the affected area will recieve the MGF signal on a large scale. Therefore, injecting PEG-MGF directly into a muscle will result in a more exagerated effect due to a greater degree of receptor saturation. The portion of the PEG-MGF which goes systematic will not be able to attach to any other muscle with the same degree of saturation, resulting in reduced effects. Remember, the PEG portion of the molecule does not affect the MGF molecule like a steroid ester affects a steroid. With esterfied AAS, the ester will prevent the steroid from attaching to the muscle at the injection site, at least until the ester is cleaved from the steroid. With PEG-MGF, the PEG portion of the molecule does not prevent it from immediately attaching to the available receptor sites and doing its job. Injecting PEG-MGF directly into a muscle will result in the affected area recieving the lion's share of the peptide and its consequent effects. Remember, once MGF attaches to the receptor site, it stays attached to the receptor site...it doesn't just float off after a few minutes, so the only potion of the injected peptide which will go systematic is that portion which was not able to attach to a receptor site...likely due to saturation taking place.

Additionally, I do not think the PEG-MGF & IGF-1 needs to be administered in 4 week rounds, either. 1 week of PEG-MGF, followed by 1 week of IGF-1 (then repeat) should work just fine. Since most people will train the entire body within one week, this will allow each muscle to be trained once during each round of PEG-MGF and IGF-1 administration, resulting in all muscles being nearly equally affected by both the proliferation & differentiation processes inherent to each peptide. During the IGF-1 weeks, I recommend LR3 for more of a whole body effect, and DES injected into the target muscle multiple times per day for more of a site enhancing effect.
 

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Isdera

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Dit kan ik ook nog toevoegen. Wel wordt in het protocol bij deze uitleg nog geadviseerd om LR3-IGF-1 op ander moment te prikken dan post workout. Ikzelf zou LR3-IGF-1 nooit op een ander moment injecteren dan post workout. Zie: http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/f133/beste-manier-igf-toepassen-315852/


This was written by FinaFreak. from OSBB

Most of us are familiar with the peptides Insulin-Like Growth Factor (IGF) and Mechano Growth Factor (MGF). We know things like IGF creates new muscle cells and helps drop body fat and MGF helps facilitate this muscle growth and fat loss.

In the beginning:

When IGF first made its way onto the bodybuilding scene most people were injecting it every day and noticed that after somewhere around 30 days the effects of IGF wore off. This was blamed on receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization". To combat this people started a 5-on 2-off rotation and then went to a post workout only rotation which extended the time on IGF an additional 10-20 days. But the problem with the lack of "receptor response" was still present.

Then MGF came onto the scene. MGF was suppose to be the next best thing in bodybuilding. It was suppose to be more anabolic than AAS and better suited for building new muscle than IGF, the problem was that it wasn't. Because of its instability it was quickly broken down once injected into the body, to prevent this PegMGF was created. This new MGF was now able to survive in the body from anywhere in the 1-3 days. Combining this new peptide discovery with IGF was suppose to be able to make all of us the next Mr. Olympia. But what happened? Why do we not see a flood of new pros?

What happened:

In theory these two peptides should cause some great results, the problem is they do not work together very well unless your timing is spot on (I will go into greater detail later). In short stem cells in the presence of MGF will cause the cells to split and multiply. When the cells are multiplying they cannot form new tissue and the effects of IGF are completely blocked. So the two together are not very compatible.

Then why not just use IGF? Well most do use IGF only and get great results, but there is that pesky business of receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization" and you have to end a cycle of IGF after 30-50 days and there is no way to prevent it... or is there?

The science:

In a natural system (Our Body) we have peaks and dips with MGF and IGF levels. The reasons for these peaks and dips are to create the ideal amount of cells to repair and create new tissue. After strenuous exercise the levels of MGF in the body (more specifically in the muscle just trained) increase dramatically and there is a dramatic decrease of IGF levels. The reason for this is because MGF causes stem cells to proliferate (split and multiply). This process ensures that there are enough cells available to make repairs and to create new tissue in order for the tissue to function efficiently and properly (in this case skeletal muscle tissue). As mentioned above in the presence of MGF there is no need for IGF because it is rendered useless and cannot activate the stem cells, so this explains the bodies response to decrease IGF levels.

In 12-36 hours MGF levels begin to drop and there is a direct correlation in the rise of IGF levels within the body. Stem cells have proliferated and now the IGF will bind to the proper receptors and cause differentiation (force the stem cells to form into a specific cell for a specific tissue type). This process repeats every time you exercise and keeps the natural system in an efficient state.

When flooding the body with these artificial peptides a person will change this natural system dramatically. A person using MGF only is causing stem cell proliferation while at the same time preventing IGF to perform its duties of creating new tissue from those newly created stem cells. A person using IGF only is depleting the supply of stem cells at a rate much faster than the body can keep up, leading to a depletion of available stem cells and not receptor "down-regulation" or "desensitization."

This sounds like a lose-lose situation. You are throwing off your body's final tuned muscle repairing mechanism, depleting valuable stem cells or creating too many stem cells for your body to deal with. Why bother?

The climax:

The reason why we bother is because we want to reach or goals. We want to be the biggest bodybuilder, the best powerlifter or whatever it is that we are training so hard for. These peptides are a great addition to our arsenal, but learning to use them properly is the key to utilizing their benefits.

The key is retraining the way we think about MGF and IGF. We have to understand that we are dealing with the creation and depletion of stem cells that are going to be responsible for our muscular growth. Our bodies do not have a constant supply of these stem cells and our bodies will not naturally utilize all of the stem cells it has created. Since we are trying to artificially manipulate the amount and utilization of these stem cells we have to look at this is a different manner.

While we may never get the exogenous MGF and IGF levels just right so that we may counteract the depletion of the stem cells we can adjust our protocols in a way that will increase the amount of time a person can use and respond to both peptides.

The Conclusion Part 1, MGF:

We know that the PegMGF will stay in the body for several days and we know that while in the presence of MGF stem cells will proliferate and the use of IGF is futile. We also know that MGF without the peg is of little to no help because of how quickly exogenous MGF is broken down within the body. So what are the options?

Well both can be of use! PegMGF can be of great use as long as the individual using the peptide in conjuction with IGF understands that the two peptides must be injected in a manner that falls outside of the current way of thinking. And MGF without the Peg addition can also be utilized as long as you don't mind being a pin cushion.

The key with MGF is to learn to either follow your bodies natural peaks and dips of MGF levels and force proliferation on a larger scale with MGF, or to force a longer period of cell proliferation with the use of PegMGF. The key is you have to have stem cells in order to create new muscle tissue.

The Conclusion Part 2, IGF:

Now that we have hit the MGF part of the cycle, now we move into the part of the cycle that utilizes the stem cells. Again we want to either follow the body's natural peaks and dips of IGF levels or we are going to want to cause a prolonged forced differentiation phase. The latter of the two options is simply following standard protocol of everyday injections or 5-on 2-off. The other is all about timing. We know that MGF levels peak in the body after strenuous exercise, so why would you want to inject a substance that is useless in the presence of MGF right when MGF levels are at their highest? The answer is you don't! You will want to wait and inject the IGF 24hrs after the exercise. This will give ample time for the MGF peak to start to dip and can closely mimic the natural rise in IGF levels. This will allow for a person to use a more efficient dose since the timing of the IGF will correspond closely to the dip in MGF levels resulting in greater utilization of the exogenous IGF.

The cycles:

There are a few cycles I would recommend.

The first being IGF only. It works, maybe not the most efficient plan out there but it does work none-the-less.

The second would be the PegMGF/IGF combination. This is not the most efficient methos but should significantly increase the amount of time one can be on an MGF/IGF cycle and still see positive results. (This may have to be altered according to your training schedule)

Sunday - Off Training - Mid-day PegMGF 200-300mcg
Monday - Training (Afternoon)
Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Wednesday - Training (Afternoon)
Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Friday - Training (Afternoon)
Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF Injection 40-80mcg

The addition of the PegMGF will cause an increase in amount and duration of stem cell proliferation and should subside about the period of the first IGF injection. While this will not keep stem cell levels stable it should prevent the drastic decrease in stem cell numbers seen with IGF only cycles and should significantly increase cycle length.

The third would be the use of regular MGF plus the addition of IGF and woulld closely mimic the natural system.

Sunday - Off Training
Monday - Training (afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Tuesday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Wednesday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Thursday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg
Friday - Training (Afternoon) - 1hr PWO MGF 50mcg in muscles trained
Saturday - Off Training - Afternoon IGF 40-80mcg

This protocol should closely mimic natural peaks and dips in MGF and IGF within the specific muscles being trained. While regular MGF is short lived in the body the addition on the regular MGF 1 hour post workout should cause an increase in cell proliferation beyond the natural system's ability and should create a larger pool of stem cells for the utilization of IGF therapy.
 

Isdera

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Persoonlijk lijkt mij onderstaande protocols de betere keuzes(wanneer je bijv. 4x/week traint):

A.
Zo - rustdag - PEG-MGF 100-250mcg subq of IM (ca. 24uur voor je training op maandag)
Ma - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Di - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Wo - rustdag - PEG-MGF 100-250mcg subq of IM (ca. 24uur voor je training op donderdag)
Do - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Vr - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Za - rustdag

B.
week 1
Zo - rustdag - PEG-MGF 100-250mcg subq of IM (ca. 24uur voor je training op maandag)
Ma - trainen
Di - trainen
Wo - rustdag - PEG-MGF 100-250mcg subq of IM (ca. 24uur voor je training op donderdag)
Do - trainen
Vr - trainen
Za - rustdag

week 2
Zo - rustdag
Ma - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Di - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Wo - rustdag
Do - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Vr - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Za - rustdag

en weer verder met week 1 etc etc.
 
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Cools

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In principe zou Peg-MGF op zichzelf ook gebruikt kunnen worden?
 

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In principe zou Peg-MGF op zichzelf ook gebruikt kunnen worden?

Dat kan heel goed ja. Alleen heb je dan na afloop meer stamcellen gecreëerd die vervolgens nog een seintje moeten krijgen om een spiercel te worden dmv eigen IGF of dmv IGF injecties.
 

Ano_1991_32

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Wow super, dit soort posts wil ik lezen hier bro's !

Ga ik straks ff uitgebreid de tijd voor nemen.
 

Cools

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Dat kan heel goed ja. Alleen heb je dan na afloop meer stamcellen gecreëerd die vervolgens nog een seintje moeten krijgen om een spiercel te worden dmv eigen IGF of dmv IGF injecties.

In principe is eigen igf-1 dus al voldoende voor een signaal te geven? Vind bovenstaande tekst duidelijk, maar zie geen bronnen.

Ga ook eens onderzoeken op wat MGF nog effect heeft. Meestal hebben groeifactoren die stamcellen aanzetten tot specifieke profilatie effect op verschillende andere groeifactoren.

Thymosin beta 4, G-CSF en GM-CSF zijn hier mooie voorbeelden van.
 
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Pleister

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Wel veel prikken met die protocols. Hoelang moet je t gebruiken voordat er fatsoenlijk resultaat is? Ik neem aan dat je met 4 weken niet echt veel nieuwe cellen hebt aangemaakt
 

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In principe is eigen igf-1 dus al voldoende voor een signaal te geven? Vind bovenstaande tekst duidelijk, maar zie geen bronnen.

Ga ook eens onderzoeken op wat MGF nog effect heeft. Meestal hebben groeifactoren die stamcellen aanzetten tot specifieke profilatie effect op verschillende andere groeifactoren.

Thymosin beta 4, G-CSF en GM-CSF zijn hier mooie voorbeelden van.

Ik heb wel dit als verificatie kunnen vinden. Wellicht zijn er meer bronnen met een uitgebreider verslag van onderzoeken.

PubMed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20130113
 

Cools

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Wel veel prikken met die protocols. Hoelang moet je t gebruiken voordat er fatsoenlijk resultaat is? Ik neem aan dat je met 4 weken niet echt veel nieuwe cellen hebt aangemaakt

Als het via een specifieke receptor werkt die signaal geeft aan het beenmerg en de stamcellen om meer aan te maken en te profileren tot spiercellen, dan werkt het van dag 1.

Ik heb thymosin beta 4 (G-actin receptor, voor orgaancellen) en G-CSF (eigen receptor beenmerg, immuuncellen) in het verleden gebruikt met directe werking.

Vermoed dat spiercellen hun eigen groeifactor of peptide hebben die via het beenmerg werkt.
 
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Isdera

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Grafiekje

Zo gaat dat dus:
whatmgfdoes.gif
 

Ymir

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Zo - rustdag - PEG-MGF 100-250mcg subq of IM (ca. 24uur voor je training op maandag)
Ma - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Di - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Wo - rustdag - PEG-MGF 100-250mcg subq of IM (ca. 24uur voor je training op donderdag)
Do - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Vr - trainen - 2x25mcg LR3-IGF-1 direct post-wo IM
Za - rustdag

Dat kan heel goed ja. Alleen heb je dan na afloop meer stamcellen gecreëerd die vervolgens nog een seintje moeten krijgen om een spiercel te worden dmv eigen IGF of dmv IGF injecties.

Stel ik wil MGF pakken samen met insuline pre workout en HGH en cjc1295 en een ghrp dan wil ik geen IGF-Lr3 want dan ga ik regelrecht een post workout hypo in. Mijn ervaring van insuline en IGF-lr3 is niet goed en zeker niet als je HGH post workout wil zetten. want die wil je ook niet zetten als je lijf vol dextro zit.....snappen jullie het dilemma....

Aangezien eigen IGF ook (beter) werkt en HGH dus een IGF piek geeft in de lever hoe plan ik dit in een protocol, hoe maak ik de timing zo dat de MGF piekt tijdens het trainen en de indirecte IGF piek afkomstig van de HGH + peptiden daarna?

Als ik op de rustdag nu peg MGF neem en voor de workout amino's en glucose + 6iu insuline en na de training peptiden en vlak daarna 2iu HGH zet gevolgd door een tweede portie amino's en een mix van koolhydraten. Zit je dan qua timing van IGF en MGF goed?
 

pumaatje

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Stel ik wil MGF pakken samen met insuline pre workout en HGH en cjc1295 en een ghrp dan wil ik geen IGF-Lr3 want dan ga ik regelrecht een post workout hypo in. Mijn ervaring van insuline en IGF-lr3 is niet goed en zeker niet als je HGH post workout wil zetten. want die wil je ook niet zetten als je lijf vol dextro zit.....snappen jullie het dilemma....

Aangezien eigen IGF ook (beter) werkt en HGH dus een IGF piek geeft in de lever hoe plan ik dit in een protocol, hoe maak ik de timing zo dat de MGF piekt tijdens het trainen en de indirecte IGF piek afkomstig van de HGH + peptiden daarna?

Als ik op de rustdag nu peg MGF neem en voor de workout amino's en glucose + 6iu insuline en na de training peptiden en vlak daarna 2iu HGH zet gevolgd door een tweede portie amino's en een mix van koolhydraten. Zit je dan qua timing van IGF en MGF goed?

mss heb je hier iets aan. http://basskilleronline.com/insulin-protocal-mutant.html
 
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Ymir

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@Pumaatje

Ja daar heb ik zeker wat aan. HGH voor de workout zetten had ik nog niet bedacht. Is ook wel lastig met eten want ik doe nu juist veel havermout een ruim uur voor de training en niet meer zo extreem veel dextro samen met de slin (schonere massa) PEG-MGF 24 uur voor de training. Maar toch voor de training is handiger dan er direct na.

Dit kan alleen niet goed:
- -Go home

- -Take 100mcg of the IGF-1lr3

Als je wil dat IGF werkt op de spieren die je getraind hebt moet je het direct na de workout nemen en 50mcg is wel zat ook. Neem je het later en neem je meer dan die 50mcg dan heeft het vooral ook een systematisch effect---> dikke "Coleman"buik (dat staat juist zo goed uitgelegd hier) Ik neem eerst IGF en ga dan naar huis. (dextro in de auto echt bij de hand!)

Meer tips zijn welkom :-)
 

Ano_1991_32

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Volgens wat ik lees op datBtrue, maakt het niet uit welke IGF-1 versie je hebt, zowiezo systematisch!
 

Ymir

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Volgens wat ik lees op datBtrue, maakt het niet uit welke IGF-1 versie je hebt, zowiezo systematisch!

Klopt versie maakt niet echt uit. Timing wel, volgens het artikel van dit topic dan. En ja het klopt dat de niet natuurlijke IGF (die zich dus niet kan binden aan het bindingseiwit rondzwerft tot het een receptor vind....dat is systematisch maar direct na de training is volgens het stuk in dit topic zijn de receptoren de getrainde spier extra gevoelig. Bovendien prik je dus in de getrainde spier.....in de hoop dat een zo klein mogelijk % op zwerftocht gaat naar je ingewanden. (ik vind de materie ook niet makkelijk maar tot zover denk ik het nu te snappen)
 
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