Testosteron Enathate

[Vincent1970]

Hallo,

vraag 1:
Sinds 2 jaar gebruik ik regelmatig testosteron Enathate.
Af en toe in combinatie met het milde anavar.
Met het spuiten in mijn bovenbil weerskanten heb ik nooit echt geen problemen ondervonden.
Ik moet daarbij wel vermelden dat ik diverse merken heb gebruikt. Allen 200-250 mg per ml.

Sinds 3 weken gebruik ik 450mg per ml. Wekelijks zet ik 1 ml. En wissel daarbij de linker en rechter bil af. Na 1,5 dag krijg ik spierpijn in m'n bil. Dit duurt ongeveer 3a4 dagen.

Mijn vraag is dan ook is dit gerelateerd aan de concentratie (450 mg) testosteron of ligt het aan de kwaliteit van het onbekende merk?


vraag2:
Wie heeft ervaring met lage dosis (1ml) testosteron wekelijks continue blijven spuiten.
I.p.v. helemaal off gaan na 12 weken. Wat zijn de voor en nadelen. Ik heb geen behoefte aan een dip na een kuur. Ik heb reeds kinderen.Mijn seksleven is beter dan ooit.
Wat ik wel lees zijn artikelen over blast cruise.

 

[Biomek]

Ik denk zelf, en weet bijna zeker, dat het aan de concentratie per milliliter ligt. Soms gebruiken ze ook een andere soort olie om de hoge concentratie te bereiken wat ook PIP kan veroorzaken.

Lage dosis staat niet gelijk aan aantal milliliter maar aan milligram. Zeker niet als je het hebt over 450mg test per ml

 

[Col_inc]

PIP ligt meestal aan kwaliteit merk zelf ook bij de ene merk totaal geen pijn PIP niks en bij de andere merk niet normale PIP.

 

[Jan Verbeek]

Hallo,

vraag 1:
Sinds 2 jaar gebruik ik regelmatig testosteron Enathate.
Af en toe in combinatie met het milde anavar.
Met het spuiten in mijn bovenbil weerskanten heb ik nooit echt geen problemen ondervonden.
Ik moet daarbij wel vermelden dat ik diverse merken zoals Genesis, Long Yi Yao en EP heb gebruikt. Allen 200-250 mg per ml.

Sinds 3 weken gebruik ik 450mg per ml. Wekelijks zet ik 1 ml. En wissel daarbij de linker en rechter bil af. Na 1,5 dag krijg ik spierpijn in m'n bil. Dit duurt ongeveer 3a4 dagen.

Mijn vraag is dan ook is dit gerelateerd aan de concentratie (450 mg) testosteron of ligt het aan de kwaliteit van het onbekende merk?

Even om antwoord te geven op jouw eerste vraag: indien stoffen hoger geconcentreerd zijn (meer dan 300 mg / ml bij test bijv.) zal dit ertoe leiden dat je meer PIP kan ervaren. Hoe dit precies werkt kan je hieronder lezen (punt 3):

____

2. Pain due to the substance being injected

1. Abscess development. As with any substance, unless it is sterile (and even in sterile cases bacteria on skin and body hair may be pushed past the skin barrier inside the body by the injection procedure) there is a high risk of developing an internal infection known as an abscess. This will result in large amount of swelling, redness, flu-like symptoms and increased lymphocytes thus increased inflammation resulting in a fair degree of pain experienced. The risk of such infections being developed when using completely sterile products however is very low.
2. Solvent concentration of substance. The concentration and type of solvents used in the preparation of the substance to be injected will affect any pain and soreness that will be experienced post-injection. Certain buffers and solvents used when injected in pure form give a fair amount of soreness. For example, some peptides are suspended in 100mM acetic acid, which when injected even in small amounts can give the user some discomfort. It is an important point to make that pain resulting from solvent concentrations used is most likely to commence quite soon after the injection, from a few minutes to a few hours maximum. Pain that takes longer than this to develop is usually due to other factors discussed here.
   
   Another common solvent used as a preservative in anabolic steroid and other IM injection preparations, is benzyl alcohol (BA). At high concentrations, BA will cause injection pain in the vast majority of users. However in concentrations <10% BA, most will experience little discomfort due to BA. Many people claim that underground laboratories that make injectable anabolic steroids in a non-regulated manner use high BA percentages in their products such as testosterone propionate which is why users experience pain. However, as explained here and in point 2(iii), the BA is unlikely to be the cause of pain. This is why it should be noted that in actual fact, many pharmaceutical preparations contain higher than expected amounts of BA in them. Deca-Pronabol, a pharmaceutically produced form of nandrolone decanoate, contains 9% BA and users generally report no pain associated with its injection. Some preparations of Sustanon-250 by established pharmaceutical companies are made with 10% BA (0.1ml BA per 1.0ml ampoule). However, many would here argue that Sustanon-250 is a sore injection for many. Despite this, when one looks at the make-up of the active ingredients of Sustanon-250, we see a combined testosterone propionate and phenylpropionate amount of roughly 100mg/ml. For reasons discussed in part 2(iii), we may safely assume that the pain is more likely to occur due to the high concentration of these short esters, as opposed to merely high BA concentration. However, it is worth remembering that everyone reacts differently to various solvents and 10% BA may not cause pain for many users, but it will cause soreness for a significant percentage of other users. Other solvents within the preparation apart from the ones outlined here can also contribute or cause injection pain; however the ones discussed are the most significant in the context of anabolic steroid preparations.
   
   
3. Concentration of active product. This is probably the most prevalent cause of post-injection pain experienced by anabolic steroid users. This is most likely due to the demand for underground laboratories to produce more concentrated steroid preparations (high mg/ml of hormone) to reduce number and volumes of injections. One good example of this is the production of testosterone propionate by many different labs. If we look at the preparation of testosterone propionate by legitimate pharmaceutical companies, we see that the maximum concentration normally produced is 50mg/ml. Despite this, most underground labs today will produce multi-use vials of testosterone propionate that are at a minimum of 100mg/ml. Hormones that contain short esters on them (like acetate, propionate, phenylpropionate) have a much higher melting point and thus cannot be made as concentrated as those with longer esters (enanthate, decanoate, etc). Although testosterone propionate can be effectively made in standard amounts of solvents and oil to 100mg/ml without crashing out of this solution, once injected in the body, the solvents tend to leach out of the solution very quickly, being absorbed much quicker than the oil. This leaves behind oil and hormone in the muscle, and at the higher concentrations (which rely on solvents to not crash in solution) this will result in some of the hormone crashing out of solution to give crystals. These crystals cause significant muscular discomfort, and also can result in the recruitment of lymphocytes involved in inflammation thus the area around the crystals can get inflamed with a build up of blood cells. This takes time to dissipate and longer for the crystals to be absorbed into the body, which is why this type of pain and discomfort usually lasts for several days.
   It should be noted however that there are certain carriers and solvents which allow for higher mg/ml preparations to be made that result in the reduction of pain. One solvent occasionally used is guaicol, which allows for more concentrated solutions to be produced and also acts as a slight analgesic or pain reliever at the site of injection. A more useful lipid carrier as an alternative to a normal oil carrier is ethyl oleate (EO). EO can be substituted for other carrier oils, and is a less viscous (thinner) carrier that also allows more of the hormone to be dissolved in it compared with other oils. The safety of EO for injections in humans is often questioned; however several different pharmaceutically produced injection products have been made that use EO as a carrier, most notably Farmak testosterone propionate. Furthermore, ethanol (alcohol) is converted to several products in the body when ingested, one being oleic acid. One potential issue with the use of EO however, is that a small percentage of users may experience an allergic-type reaction to its use, typified by a rash and some local discomfort, yet this is a more rare reaction to EO.
   
   Below is a list of common anabolic steroids and when prepared with common percentages of solvents and normal oil carriers (not EO), what the maximum normal concentration that can be achieved before pain is experienced:
   Testosterone Propionate <100mg/ml
   Testosterone Enanthate <300mg/ml
   Testosterone Cypionate <250mg/ml
   Nandrolone Decanoate <325mg/ml
   Nandrolone Phenylpropionate <150mg/ml
   Trenbolone Acetate <100mg/ml
   Trenbolone Enanthate <250mg/ml
   Boldenone Undecylenate (EQ) <900mg/ml
   Methenolone Enanthate <75mg/ml
   Drostanolone Propionate <150mg/ml

In summary, there are various different causatives of IM pain post-injection, however the most prevalent is likely to be the concentration of hormone used in the preparation and secondly to a lesser extent, the concentration of solvents used. However as outlined, with any injection this is an invasive procedure with regards to breaking the body's natural barriers, there is always a risk of soreness and discomfort.

 

[Jan Verbeek]

vraag2:
Wie heeft ervaring met lage dosis (1ml) testosteron wekelijks continue blijven spuiten.
I.p.v. helemaal off gaan na 12 weken. Wat zijn de voor en nadelen. Ik heb geen behoefte aan een dip na een kuur. Ik heb reeds kinderen.Mijn seksleven is beter dan ooit.
Wat ik wel lees zijn artikelen over blast cruise.

De meeste mensen die ik ken cruisen in zulke periodes op 125 mg - 200 mg test per week.
Als jij 1 ml test per week blijft zetten die op 450 mg / ml gedoseerd is dan is dit (naar mijn mening) te hoog voor een goede cruise.
Herstel zal daardoor ook niet op gang komen en dus krijgt je lichaam niet de gewenste rustperiodes die wel gewenst zijn.

Maar het zou best kunnen dat heavy blasters & cruisers wel op hogere test niveaus doorgaan, dus zou nog even antwoorden van anderen afwachten.

 

[Biomek]

Cruise dosis bepaal je aan de hand van hoe beest je bent.

Iemand van 120kg droog op 6% vet gaat het niet redden met 150mg test natuurlijk,

 

[Vincent1970]

De meeste mensen die ik ken cruisen in zulke periodes op 125 mg - 200 mg test per week.
Als jij 1 ml test per week blijft zetten die op 450 mg / ml gedoseerd is dan is dit (naar mijn mening) te hoog voor een goede cruise.
Herstel zal daardoor ook niet op gang komen en dus krijgt je lichaam niet de gewenste rustperiodes die wel gewenst zijn.

Maar het zou best kunnen dat heavy blasters & cruisers wel op hogere test niveaus doorgaan, dus zou nog even antwoorden van anderen afwachten.

Bedankt voor je reactie. Voor de duidelijkheid ik wil niet "off" gaan. Maar wekelijks blijven gebruiken. Als ik het goedbegrijp uit je reactie dat het beter is om de concentratie Test. van 450 terug te brengen aar 200?

 

[Col_inc]

hij bedoeld dat je op 450mg toch bijwerkingen gaat oplopen en schade op lange termijn. Omdat 450 echt wel te hoog is je herstelt niet zeg maar.

 

[Vincent1970]

Even om antwoord te geven op jouw eerste vraag: indien stoffen hoger geconcentreerd zijn (meer dan 300 mg / ml bij test bijv.) zal dit ertoe leiden dat je meer PIP kan ervaren. Hoe dit precies werkt kan je hieronder lezen (punt 3):

____

2. Pain due to the substance being injected

1. Abscess development. As with any substance, unless it is sterile (and even in sterile cases bacteria on skin and body hair may be pushed past the skin barrier inside the body by the injection procedure) there is a high risk of developing an internal infection known as an abscess. This will result in large amount of swelling, redness, flu-like symptoms and increased lymphocytes thus increased inflammation resulting in a fair degree of pain experienced. The risk of such infections being developed when using completely sterile products however is very low.
2. Solvent concentration of substance. The concentration and type of solvents used in the preparation of the substance to be injected will affect any pain and soreness that will be experienced post-injection. Certain buffers and solvents used when injected in pure form give a fair amount of soreness. For example, some peptides are suspended in 100mM acetic acid, which when injected even in small amounts can give the user some discomfort. It is an important point to make that pain resulting from solvent concentrations used is most likely to commence quite soon after the injection, from a few minutes to a few hours maximum. Pain that takes longer than this to develop is usually due to other factors discussed here.
   
   Another common solvent used as a preservative in anabolic steroid and other IM injection preparations, is benzyl alcohol (BA). At high concentrations, BA will cause injection pain in the vast majority of users. However in concentrations <10% BA, most will experience little discomfort due to BA. Many people claim that underground laboratories that make injectable anabolic steroids in a non-regulated manner use high BA percentages in their products such as testosterone propionate which is why users experience pain. However, as explained here and in point 2(iii), the BA is unlikely to be the cause of pain. This is why it should be noted that in actual fact, many pharmaceutical preparations contain higher than expected amounts of BA in them. Deca-Pronabol, a pharmaceutically produced form of nandrolone decanoate, contains 9% BA and users generally report no pain associated with its injection. Some preparations of Sustanon-250 by established pharmaceutical companies are made with 10% BA (0.1ml BA per 1.0ml ampoule). However, many would here argue that Sustanon-250 is a sore injection for many. Despite this, when one looks at the make-up of the active ingredients of Sustanon-250, we see a combined testosterone propionate and phenylpropionate amount of roughly 100mg/ml. For reasons discussed in part 2(iii), we may safely assume that the pain is more likely to occur due to the high concentration of these short esters, as opposed to merely high BA concentration. However, it is worth remembering that everyone reacts differently to various solvents and 10% BA may not cause pain for many users, but it will cause soreness for a significant percentage of other users. Other solvents within the preparation apart from the ones outlined here can also contribute or cause injection pain; however the ones discussed are the most significant in the context of anabolic steroid preparations.
   
   
3. Concentration of active product. This is probably the most prevalent cause of post-injection pain experienced by anabolic steroid users. This is most likely due to the demand for underground laboratories to produce more concentrated steroid preparations (high mg/ml of hormone) to reduce number and volumes of injections. One good example of this is the production of testosterone propionate by many different labs. If we look at the preparation of testosterone propionate by legitimate pharmaceutical companies, we see that the maximum concentration normally produced is 50mg/ml. Despite this, most underground labs today will produce multi-use vials of testosterone propionate that are at a minimum of 100mg/ml. Hormones that contain short esters on them (like acetate, propionate, phenylpropionate) have a much higher melting point and thus cannot be made as concentrated as those with longer esters (enanthate, decanoate, etc). Although testosterone propionate can be effectively made in standard amounts of solvents and oil to 100mg/ml without crashing out of this solution, once injected in the body, the solvents tend to leach out of the solution very quickly, being absorbed much quicker than the oil. This leaves behind oil and hormone in the muscle, and at the higher concentrations (which rely on solvents to not crash in solution) this will result in some of the hormone crashing out of solution to give crystals. These crystals cause significant muscular discomfort, and also can result in the recruitment of lymphocytes involved in inflammation thus the area around the crystals can get inflamed with a build up of blood cells. This takes time to dissipate and longer for the crystals to be absorbed into the body, which is why this type of pain and discomfort usually lasts for several days.
   It should be noted however that there are certain carriers and solvents which allow for higher mg/ml preparations to be made that result in the reduction of pain. One solvent occasionally used is guaicol, which allows for more concentrated solutions to be produced and also acts as a slight analgesic or pain reliever at the site of injection. A more useful lipid carrier as an alternative to a normal oil carrier is ethyl oleate (EO). EO can be substituted for other carrier oils, and is a less viscous (thinner) carrier that also allows more of the hormone to be dissolved in it compared with other oils. The safety of EO for injections in humans is often questioned; however several different pharmaceutically produced injection products have been made that use EO as a carrier, most notably Farmak testosterone propionate. Furthermore, ethanol (alcohol) is converted to several products in the body when ingested, one being oleic acid. One potential issue with the use of EO however, is that a small percentage of users may experience an allergic-type reaction to its use, typified by a rash and some local discomfort, yet this is a more rare reaction to EO.
   
   Below is a list of common anabolic steroids and when prepared with common percentages of solvents and normal oil carriers (not EO), what the maximum normal concentration that can be achieved before pain is experienced:
   Testosterone Propionate <100mg/ml
   Testosterone Enanthate <300mg/ml
   Testosterone Cypionate <250mg/ml
   Nandrolone Decanoate <325mg/ml
   Nandrolone Phenylpropionate <150mg/ml
   Trenbolone Acetate <100mg/ml
   Trenbolone Enanthate <250mg/ml
   Boldenone Undecylenate (EQ) <900mg/ml
   Methenolone Enanthate <75mg/ml
   Drostanolone Propionate <150mg/ml

In summary, there are various different causatives of IM pain post-injection, however the most prevalent is likely to be the concentration of hormone used in the preparation and secondly to a lesser extent, the concentration of solvents used. However as outlined, with any injection this is an invasive procedure with regards to breaking the body's natural barriers, there is always a risk of soreness and discomfort.

Even om antwoord te geven op jouw eerste vraag: indien stoffen hoger geconcentreerd zijn (meer dan 300 mg / ml bij test bijv.) zal dit ertoe leiden dat je meer PIP kan ervaren. Hoe dit precies werkt kan je hieronder lezen (punt 3):

____

2. Pain due to the substance being injected

1. Abscess development. As with any substance, unless it is sterile (and even in sterile cases bacteria on skin and body hair may be pushed past the skin barrier inside the body by the injection procedure) there is a high risk of developing an internal infection known as an abscess. This will result in large amount of swelling, redness, flu-like symptoms and increased lymphocytes thus increased inflammation resulting in a fair degree of pain experienced. The risk of such infections being developed when using completely sterile products however is very low.
2. Solvent concentration of substance. The concentration and type of solvents used in the preparation of the substance to be injected will affect any pain and soreness that will be experienced post-injection. Certain buffers and solvents used when injected in pure form give a fair amount of soreness. For example, some peptides are suspended in 100mM acetic acid, which when injected even in small amounts can give the user some discomfort. It is an important point to make that pain resulting from solvent concentrations used is most likely to commence quite soon after the injection, from a few minutes to a few hours maximum. Pain that takes longer than this to develop is usually due to other factors discussed here.
   
   Another common solvent used as a preservative in anabolic steroid and other IM injection preparations, is benzyl alcohol (BA). At high concentrations, BA will cause injection pain in the vast majority of users. However in concentrations <10% BA, most will experience little discomfort due to BA. Many people claim that underground laboratories that make injectable anabolic steroids in a non-regulated manner use high BA percentages in their products such as testosterone propionate which is why users experience pain. However, as explained here and in point 2(iii), the BA is unlikely to be the cause of pain. This is why it should be noted that in actual fact, many pharmaceutical preparations contain higher than expected amounts of BA in them. Deca-Pronabol, a pharmaceutically produced form of nandrolone decanoate, contains 9% BA and users generally report no pain associated with its injection. Some preparations of Sustanon-250 by established pharmaceutical companies are made with 10% BA (0.1ml BA per 1.0ml ampoule). However, many would here argue that Sustanon-250 is a sore injection for many. Despite this, when one looks at the make-up of the active ingredients of Sustanon-250, we see a combined testosterone propionate and phenylpropionate amount of roughly 100mg/ml. For reasons discussed in part 2(iii), we may safely assume that the pain is more likely to occur due to the high concentration of these short esters, as opposed to merely high BA concentration. However, it is worth remembering that everyone reacts differently to various solvents and 10% BA may not cause pain for many users, but it will cause soreness for a significant percentage of other users. Other solvents within the preparation apart from the ones outlined here can also contribute or cause injection pain; however the ones discussed are the most significant in the context of anabolic steroid preparations.
   
   
3. Concentration of active product. This is probably the most prevalent cause of post-injection pain experienced by anabolic steroid users. This is most likely due to the demand for underground laboratories to produce more concentrated steroid preparations (high mg/ml of hormone) to reduce number and volumes of injections. One good example of this is the production of testosterone propionate by many different labs. If we look at the preparation of testosterone propionate by legitimate pharmaceutical companies, we see that the maximum concentration normally produced is 50mg/ml. Despite this, most underground labs today will produce multi-use vials of testosterone propionate that are at a minimum of 100mg/ml. Hormones that contain short esters on them (like acetate, propionate, phenylpropionate) have a much higher melting point and thus cannot be made as concentrated as those with longer esters (enanthate, decanoate, etc). Although testosterone propionate can be effectively made in standard amounts of solvents and oil to 100mg/ml without crashing out of this solution, once injected in the body, the solvents tend to leach out of the solution very quickly, being absorbed much quicker than the oil. This leaves behind oil and hormone in the muscle, and at the higher concentrations (which rely on solvents to not crash in solution) this will result in some of the hormone crashing out of solution to give crystals. These crystals cause significant muscular discomfort, and also can result in the recruitment of lymphocytes involved in inflammation thus the area around the crystals can get inflamed with a build up of blood cells. This takes time to dissipate and longer for the crystals to be absorbed into the body, which is why this type of pain and discomfort usually lasts for several days.
   It should be noted however that there are certain carriers and solvents which allow for higher mg/ml preparations to be made that result in the reduction of pain. One solvent occasionally used is guaicol, which allows for more concentrated solutions to be produced and also acts as a slight analgesic or pain reliever at the site of injection. A more useful lipid carrier as an alternative to a normal oil carrier is ethyl oleate (EO). EO can be substituted for other carrier oils, and is a less viscous (thinner) carrier that also allows more of the hormone to be dissolved in it compared with other oils. The safety of EO for injections in humans is often questioned; however several different pharmaceutically produced injection products have been made that use EO as a carrier, most notably Farmak testosterone propionate. Furthermore, ethanol (alcohol) is converted to several products in the body when ingested, one being oleic acid. One potential issue with the use of EO however, is that a small percentage of users may experience an allergic-type reaction to its use, typified by a rash and some local discomfort, yet this is a more rare reaction to EO.
   
   Below is a list of common anabolic steroids and when prepared with common percentages of solvents and normal oil carriers (not EO), what the maximum normal concentration that can be achieved before pain is experienced:
   Testosterone Propionate <100mg/ml
   Testosterone Enanthate <300mg/ml
   Testosterone Cypionate <250mg/ml
   Nandrolone Decanoate <325mg/ml
   Nandrolone Phenylpropionate <150mg/ml
   Trenbolone Acetate <100mg/ml
   Trenbolone Enanthate <250mg/ml
   Boldenone Undecylenate (EQ) <900mg/ml
   Methenolone Enanthate <75mg/ml
   Drostanolone Propionate <150mg/ml

In summary, there are various different causatives of IM pain post-injection, however the most prevalent is likely to be the concentration of hormone used in the preparation and secondly to a lesser extent, the concentration of solvents used. However as outlined, with any injection this is an invasive procedure with regards to breaking the body's natural barriers, there is always a risk of soreness and discomfort.

Bedankt voor je reactie. Wat me nog niet helemaal duidelijk is wat wijsheid is. De pijn is wel dragelijk. Wanneer ik 450 blijf gebruiken wordt op den duur de pijn minder? Of is het verstandig om weer terug te vallen op de test 250?

 

[Col_inc]

terug vallen op 250mg natuurlijk. zo laat je je lichaam toch wel wat meer herstellen en wanneer je dan uiteindelijk weer een kuur erin gooi merk je dat wel

 

[KategorieC]

125mg om de 7 dagen zal hoogstwaarschijnlijk al voldoende zijn

 

[Jan Verbeek]

Naar mijn idee ligt de max TRT dosering (waarbij het lichaam nog kan herstellen) op 200 mg / week.
Maar wat KategorieC zegt: 125 mg / week is al voldoende voor de meeste.

Als de pijn dragelijk is met de 450mg/ml test en jij weet dat het goede kwaliteit is dan zou ik hem gewoon opmaken.
Daarna kan je altijd weer terug switchen naar < 300 mg/ml test/sust.

 

[Col_inc]

gewoon opmaken ik had pas een frontload met een behoorlijke dosis en dacht ik moet dit flesje opmaken dus gingen er gekke doseringen in

 

[skydirk]

Naar mijn idee ligt de max TRT dosering (waarbij het lichaam nog kan herstellen) op 200 mg / week.

Wat bedoel je daar nu mee? Wat heeft dat met herstel te maken? Leg eens uit man, want ik versta er niets meer van.

 

[Col_inc]

hoe bedoel je versta er niets meer van je lichaam moet toch ook herstellen lever etc etc etc....

 

[Ano_54321]

Als je besluit te gaan blasten/cruisen dan is het belangrijk regelmatig lang genoeg te cruisen (8-10 weken op 125-150 mg per week). Laat halfjaarlijks je bloed checken (liefst net voor een blast, wanneer je dus al een week of 8 gecruiset hebt) zodat je zeker bent dat je bloedwaarden (lever, nieren, cholesterol, hematocriet, ...) in orde zijn!

Gezien je kennisniveau zou ik echter NIET gaan blasten/cruisen. Ik raad je aan om eerst nog veel kennis op te doen, je bent namelijk met je gezondheid bezig. Het is allemaal leuk tot er complicaties opduiken

 

[Jan Verbeek]

Wat bedoel je daar nu mee? Wat heeft dat met herstel te maken? Leg eens uit man, want ik versta er niets meer van.

Op het moment dat je veel test injecteert vindt er een shutdown plaats van de HPTA.
Er zijn mensen die i.p.v. OFF gaan proberen te herstellen met TRT.
Wat ik veel online tegen kom is dat men hiervoor een TRT dose van max 200 mg / week adviseert.
Hierdoor zou (geen zekerheid!) de shutdown vermeden kunnen worden en zouden bepaalde waardes weer kunnen herstellen.

Zodra jij 450mg test / week als TRT toepast gaan je LH en FSH niet op hun oude niveaus komen.
Echter zijn er (naar mijn weten) geen klinische studies waarbij ik de eerder genoemde stelling kan onderbouwen.
Wellicht dat @Galen enig idee heeft of deze studies er zijn en of de eerder genoemde stelling correct is.

Als iemand hier lange tijd op TRT heeft gecruised en bloedwaardes heeft laten testen kan diegene ook wat meer inzicht geven.
Het varieert echter ook weer erg per persoon dus volledige zekerheid heb je nooit.

 

[IkWilGrootWorde]

Ook tijdens een cruise blijft lh en fsh gewoon op 0. Wil je dit herstellen dan moet je off gaan.

 

[Jeff Done]

Op het moment dat je veel test injecteert vindt er een shutdown plaats van de HPTA.
Er zijn mensen die i.p.v. OFF gaan proberen te herstellen met TRT.
Wat ik veel online tegen kom is dat men hiervoor een TRT dose van max 200 mg / week adviseert.
Hierdoor zou (geen zekerheid!) de shutdown vermeden kunnen worden en zouden bepaalde waardes weer kunnen herstellen.

Zodra jij 450mg test / week als TRT toepast gaan je LH en FSH niet op hun oude niveaus komen.
Echter zijn er (naar mijn weten) geen klinische studies waarbij ik de eerder genoemde stelling kan onderbouwen.
Wellicht dat @Galen enig idee heeft of deze studies er zijn en of de eerder genoemde stelling correct is.

Als iemand hier lange tijd op TRT heeft gecruised en bloedwaardes heeft laten testen kan diegene ook wat meer inzicht geven.
Het varieert echter ook weer erg per persoon dus volledige zekerheid heb je nooit.

Een shutdown start al vanaf het moment dat je exogeen hormonen injecteert. En een cruise maakt dit alleen maar erger. Het doel van een cruise is niet om te voorkomen dat je een shutdown hebt. Die heb je al zodra je de eerste ml injecteert.

 

[Jan Verbeek]

Een shutdown start al vanaf het moment dat je exogeen hormonen injecteert. En een cruise maakt dit alleen maar erger. Het doel van een cruise is niet om te voorkomen dat je een shutdown hebt. Die heb je al zodra je de eerste ml injecteert.

Klopt. De shutdown begint al bij de inject en deze voorkom je niet met de cruise nee.
En het is logisch dat de kans op herstel meer hoger is wanneer je OFF gaat t.o.v. TRT.

Maar de vraag is meer: kan je na (wellicht een langere periode) ook met low dose TRT (125mg/week) herstellen?
Of moet je per se volledig OFF gaan wil je weer op de goede oude levels komen?

Edit, add: er was iemand op een Amerikaans forum die ook het volgende zei:

Well, here is a study that turns the conventional wisdom on its head:

It shows that LH was not significantly suppressed by a TRT protocol for patients with primary hypogonadism. In other words, HPTA shutdown did not occur. On the contrary, LH remained above normal.

Alleen de link naar het klinische onderzoek is niet meer geldig, dus daarom hoopte ik ook of van Galen hier wellicht wat meer over kon vertellen.
Die zal ongetwijfeld zulke cases wel eerder gezien / gelezen hebben.