Uit mijn archieven : Flat Back Paradox

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Freaky Bodybuilder
+15 jaar member
Lid geworden
24 okt 2002

Dit is (Na Reding vermoedelijk) de sterkste en meeste gekende powerlifters hier in Europa. Vasili Alexeyev. een monster van een mens en een kracht die erbij paste.
kijk nu goed naar de eerste 4 plaatjes, naar zijn rug. heb je gezien? in tegenstelling tot wat iedereen zegt over het liften met een ronde rug (dat het contra-productief is en ongezond), heeft Vasili altijd zo gehoffen, is hij 8 keer op een rij wereldkampioen geworden, en heeft hij nooit een rugblessure gehad.

nu, vergeet je mening over ronde rug etc etc. vergeet het, en lees het volgende stukje, geschreven door wijlen Mel C Siff :


For newcomers to this forum, these P&Ps are Propositions, not facts or
dogmatic proclamations. They are intended to stimulate interaction among
users working in different fields, to re-examine traditional concepts, foster
distance education, question our beliefs and suggest new lines of research or
approaches to training. We look forward to responses from anyone who has
views or relevant information on the topics.

PP 109: Rigid adherence to the advice to lift with the lumbar spine 'flat'
or in mild extension may not always mandatory or necessary.


Back pain and disability, particularly of the lumbar spine, has long been
associated with faulty lifting technique. Both epidemiologically and in
terms of biomechanical analysis, it would appear that lumbar flexion under
loading poses special risks to the intervertebral discs, so it is generally
advised that we avoid lifting with forward lumbar flexion, particularly if
this is combined with trunk rotation or lateral flexion.

This seems to be supported by studies which show that approximately 8% of
injuries to Olympic weightlifters involve the lumbar spine, whereas this
figure is over 25% for Powerlifters. The greater incidence of lumbar injury
among powerlifters may be due to the fact that the deadlift often produces a
greater degree of spinal flexion during the initial pulling stage from the
platform. Although biomechanical analysis shows that the greater
accelerations of the explosive stages of the Olympic lifts can produce
greater forces than those encountered in powerlifting, these forces do not
occur in the early stages of the lift when the lumbar spine is at its most

However, if one studies sagittal plane photographic or video sequences of
some of the world's top weightlifters, it will be noticed that a significant
number of these highly experienced lifters display varying degrees of mild
spinal flexion during the initial stage of the pull in both of the Olympic

In fact, Russian biomechanists paid great attention to the lifting technique
of the Bulgarian former World and Olympic 75kg champion, Mitkov, whose early
lifting phases were all executed with a rounded back. It was concluded that
he actually used the 'rolling backwards' or straightening of the lumbar spine
to impart greater upward momentum for the explosive second pull of the lifts.
Interestingly, his style of pulling produced a maximum pulling velocity of 2m
per second in the snatch (with 150kg), second only to that of the great
superheavy, Zhabotinsky (2.06m/sec), whose pull (with 175kg) was also
executed with mild lumbar flexion.

The Bulgarian, Christov, who also lifted with some lumbar flexion produced a
high maximum pulling velocity in the snatch with 180kg in the 110kg division
(1.89m/sec).In the clean, Alexeyev produced one of the highest maximum
pulling velocities (1.8m per sec with a load of 242.5kg), followed by
Zhabotinsky (1.76m per sec with 207.5kg). Once again, both of these lifters
began their pulls with a degree of spinal flexion. None of the lifters using
mild lumbar flexion during heavy lifts displayed any greater incidence of
spinal injury compared with their colleagues.

In other words, it seems that the advice always to lift with a flat or mildly
extended lumbar spine may not be accurate or suitable for everyone. Other
studies of the lifting technique of the 'rounded back' lifters mentioned
above did not reveal that their technique was faulty, but merely an
individual characteristic.Anatomically, we know that deliberate attempts to
extend the lumbar spine may result in a relative decrease in the tension of
the posterior ligaments of the spine, while inadequate muscular contraction
of the erector spinae muscle group may lead to relative increase of tension
in these ligaments.

It seems as if a balance between the tensions in the muscular corset of the
trunk and the associated ligaments offers the optimal way of lifting heavy
loads from the ground, rather than a dogmatic insistence on a flat or mildly
extended lower back. Just as there are genetic differences in other aspects
of musculoskeletal structure and function, so there may be similar
differences which relate to the muscles responsible for stabilising the body
while lifting.

This implies that the role of the coach, trainer or therapist should be to
determine exactly which individual patterns of muscle involvement and joint
movement should be used by a given person, a skill which is probably more
commonly understood among top weightlifting coaches than elsewhere else. (I
have found that use of a lifting belt, contrary to belief among some
trainers, can offer an excellent kinaesthetic way of imparting safe lifting
technique which establishes the optimal balance between muscular activation
and ligamentous tension). It also implies that rigid formulae for lifting
need to be seriously questioned - after all, mild spinal flexion may offer
some individuals a safer, more effective lifting technique than a 'flat'
back. Again, the principle of individualisation seems to remain inescapable.

What do other group members think about current lifting advice? Do we
persist with rigid 'flat back' rules or do we permit greater flexibility of
approach to account for individual idiosyncrasies? What about the evidence
that some highly successful lifters raise very heavy loads while using
definite spinal flexion? (I have not touched on this, but it is not unusual
to observe some top powerlifters also lifting safely with rounded backs - my
powerlifting colleagues might like to comment on this).


Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA


Freaky Bodybuilder
+15 jaar member
Lid geworden
24 okt 2002
hmm, dacht dat er al gepost is geweest... oh well, bumping a good topic tho'


Advanced Bodybuilder
+15 jaar member
Lid geworden
19 aug 2003
Goede tekst idd, is volgens mij ook al aangetoond ergens dat tillen met een ronde rug bij gezonde personen niet minder blessures oplevert dan bij het tillen van een rechte rug, mits je je intra-abdominale druk verhoogt. Volgens mij was dat wel bij lichte ladingen.

Voor OL lijkt me het ook een goede techniek omdat de flexie in de wervelkolom bij de 2nd pull zorgt voor extra power.


Freaky Bodybuilder
+15 jaar member
Lid geworden
24 okt 2002
idd, nuance is dus van toepassing als je dit wil overbrengen naar het deadliften met maximale gewichten. want door de verminderde snelheid kan dit juist zorgen voor problemen in de lockout.

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