Rob, if you're still around, I was wondering about post-workout carbs.
I'm well into your NHE diet and like it a lot. I feel great on it, although I do need to put pen to paper to fine tune as I don't appear to be dropping fat... yet...
I'm also paying a lot of attention to cortisol issues because I had some problems last year, so I like the idea of post-workout carb intake to keep cortisol in check.
Do you think we have more leeway with carbs on workout days if it's taken post-workout? I mean, and still be effectively on NHE?
Thanks again for answering our questions here.
====================================================================================================================
Laree,
It’s an honor to address a question posed by bodybuilding’s greatest matriarch and someone who has helped me greatly to get my message out. The issue of post-workout carb consumption has been a sticking point in the effort to win wider acceptance for NHE’s cyclical low-carb diet among bodybuilders. I’ll take this opportunity to address this matter completely, so that we can finally lay to rest the myriad misconceptions leading bodybuilders astray.
First, NHE is not opposed to post-workout carb-loading. You get two carb-loads per week. If you want to schedule both post-workout, that’s perfectly okay. But I believe a weekly dietary plan must be established based on what is determined to be most nearly optimal, and it cannot depend on how many times a person chooses to work-out. Some people work-out twice per week, some people work-out twice per day. Some people work-out in the morning, some in the afternoon, some at night. The NHE Eating Plan would be as amorphous as a jellyfish if it hinged on the workout practices of each individual exercise practitioner. More directly, an eating plan that has no fixed foundation is no plan at all.
Dietary Modification of Cortisol and Catabolism
The concept that carbs post workout help restrain cortisol is misguided. From the broadest standpoint, one can be a sugar-burner or one can be a fat-burner. There’s a certain amount of carbohydrate one can consume – a certain amount of carb-loading one can undergo – and remain predominately a fat-burner. If you consume more than that amount, you become predominately a sugar-burner.
NHE cites evidence showing that fat-burners (like our ancient ancestors, who infrequently ate the high-density carbs consumed regularly by modern-day bodybuilders) maintain a lower level of bodyfat and have higher and more stable energy levels. Even among those who report sluggish fat loss on the NHE Eating Plan, reports of higher and more stable energy levels and improved mental focus are almost universal among those whose previous diet was unnaturally (from the evolutionary standpoint) high in carbohydrate.
Furthermore, and related to more stable energy levels, the fat-burning metabolic state is associated with better muscle maintenance (anti-catabolism). As explained in NHE, this is because the sugar-burning state is connected with gluconeogenesis (which refers to the breakdown of protein to provide glucose to fuel the sugar-burning machine). You can avoid gluconeogenesis with frequent carbohydrate feedings, but then you’ve surrendered to sugar-burning; and the unhealthy effects of chronic insulin elevation are well established. The last thing I would recommend to someone trying to avoid degenerative diseases like type II diabetes, stopped-up arteries, and cancer is a high-carbohydrate diet. (Evidence increasingly shows a direct correlation between insulin levels and many types of cancer.) For some reason, bodybuilders feel they are immune to the adverse effects of a high-carbohydrate diet. But they’re not, as many discover later.
There are studies showing that a high-carb feeding post-workout helps suppress cortisol, but these studies (which are trumpeted to no end by the pro-carbo crowd) represent a snapshot in time. That which goes up must come down. What happens a couple hours later when blood sugar drops? If you are a sugar-burner, then when blood sugar levels fall you are subject to gluconeogenesis (because your body has been “trained” by your feeding pattern to produce sugar from protein), which represents the catabolic undoing of whatever anti-catabolic or anabolic “boost” you may have gotten from eating a lot of carbs post-workout.
Keep in mind that protein stimulates insulin, too, and a full-sized protein/fat meal (+ some carbs, optionally) calls forth plenty of insulin. It just doesn’t refill glycogen stores as quickly.
Glycogen Refueling
The other most commonly cited reason for consuming carbs post workout is that it “refills glycogen stores more rapidly.” Why is it beneficial refill glycogen stores as quickly as possible? Provided glycogen is adequately refilled by the time the next workout rolls around, there’s no good reason to refill glycogen stores as rapidly as possible. It won’t necessarily enhance anabolism, but it will r*tard fat-burning and send you on your way down the slippery slope toward sugar-burning.
An extremely important concept in this connection is “glycogen use efficiency,” discussed in NHE. Because of the human body’s complex feedback mechanisms and counterregulation, as with water, fat, vitamin C, etc. THE LESS YOU CONSUME, THE GREATER PROPORTION YOU RETAIN; AND THE MORE YOU CONSUME, THE LESSER PROPORTION YOU RETAIN. (This has obvious value from a survival standpoint, but its paradoxical nature represents a big-league curveball to those trying to figure-out the most nearly optimal diet.) Give a feasted man a cake and he might eat a slice and throw the rest away; give a famished man a cake and he will “store and save” the entire thing inside his body. You want all the carbs you eat to be “stored and saved” as glycogen, not wasted through gluconeogenesis or conversion to bodyfat. The only way this will happen is by “restricting” carbohydrate intake to levels that approximate the eating practices of our (now famous) ancient ancestor, before carb loading. Thus, boiled down, the ideal dietary formula with respect to carbs is seen to be: “moderate restriction most of the time” + “scheduled episodic loading.”
Other Considerations
Let’s take a moment to look at underlying reasons why people cling to carbohydrate myths.
Commercial – Applying common sense and the general knowledge we all share of “how the world works” if there is a gigantic economic incentive to promote carb consumption (especially to health enthusiasts – because we’re the most willing and ready to invest money in our physique) and no comparable countervailing economic incentive, then carb consumption will enjoy an advantage in the marketplace of ideas. This does NOT mean that every person who endorses high-carb consumption has a financial interest or unsavory motives. But it does mean that at the root or source of health information, a bias exists. By “root or source” I’m talking about the researchers working for the supplement companies, and the media (like fitness magazines) who select which studies to publicize and sell advertising space to supplement companies. If it took 30 years to win general acceptance of the fact that low-carb is healthier than high carb (despite Atkins’ persistent efforts and a chapter in NHE entitled: “You Broil Never Fry, But You’ve Been Living a Lie” filled with scientific references), are you sure that prevailing notions about the post-workout meal are not also mistaken?
Sensorial – In general, bodybuilders and athletes are more aware of certain physiological changes than the average person. This is because their range of physical sensations tends to be broader (for example: temporary exhaustion, sweating, greatly increased circulation and transient blood pressure increases, deeper sleep, sleep disturbances consequent to overtraining, a recovery process that intimately involves the immune system, occasional soreness, etc.). As discussed in NHE, the effects of a high-carb meal – which tend to be magnified in the post-workout period – are physiologically and neurochemically distinct, and, in respect to serotonin, potentially addictive. Bodybuilders who enjoy the “pump” of working-out will have a similar affinity for the post-workout “pump” of loading carbs. Take it from someone who many years ago, blindly following the mainstream, after working-out would eat a “vat” (as my brother Rick called it) of white rice directly from the stainless steel pot in which it was cooked. I think I once feel asleep at the kitchen table with the industrial-sized wooden “shovel” in hand. There are relatively few pleasures more enjoyable than carb-loading oneself into a blissful stupor after a grueling workout - and I believe Mr. Universe Dave Draper would heartily agree.
Remember, the greater challenge is not reducing bodyfat, but rather remaining lean. The NHE Eating Plan is a lifetime dietary strategy. As such, I encourage everyone on the plan to contact me with a progress report twice per year in addition to any questions that cannot be resolved by reference to the books, Ask Rob, or my replies to questions on davedraper.com. Ask Rob
--------------------
Natural Hormonal Enhancement
http://extique.com/
I'm well into your NHE diet and like it a lot. I feel great on it, although I do need to put pen to paper to fine tune as I don't appear to be dropping fat... yet...
I'm also paying a lot of attention to cortisol issues because I had some problems last year, so I like the idea of post-workout carb intake to keep cortisol in check.
Do you think we have more leeway with carbs on workout days if it's taken post-workout? I mean, and still be effectively on NHE?
Thanks again for answering our questions here.
====================================================================================================================
Laree,
It’s an honor to address a question posed by bodybuilding’s greatest matriarch and someone who has helped me greatly to get my message out. The issue of post-workout carb consumption has been a sticking point in the effort to win wider acceptance for NHE’s cyclical low-carb diet among bodybuilders. I’ll take this opportunity to address this matter completely, so that we can finally lay to rest the myriad misconceptions leading bodybuilders astray.
First, NHE is not opposed to post-workout carb-loading. You get two carb-loads per week. If you want to schedule both post-workout, that’s perfectly okay. But I believe a weekly dietary plan must be established based on what is determined to be most nearly optimal, and it cannot depend on how many times a person chooses to work-out. Some people work-out twice per week, some people work-out twice per day. Some people work-out in the morning, some in the afternoon, some at night. The NHE Eating Plan would be as amorphous as a jellyfish if it hinged on the workout practices of each individual exercise practitioner. More directly, an eating plan that has no fixed foundation is no plan at all.
Dietary Modification of Cortisol and Catabolism
The concept that carbs post workout help restrain cortisol is misguided. From the broadest standpoint, one can be a sugar-burner or one can be a fat-burner. There’s a certain amount of carbohydrate one can consume – a certain amount of carb-loading one can undergo – and remain predominately a fat-burner. If you consume more than that amount, you become predominately a sugar-burner.
NHE cites evidence showing that fat-burners (like our ancient ancestors, who infrequently ate the high-density carbs consumed regularly by modern-day bodybuilders) maintain a lower level of bodyfat and have higher and more stable energy levels. Even among those who report sluggish fat loss on the NHE Eating Plan, reports of higher and more stable energy levels and improved mental focus are almost universal among those whose previous diet was unnaturally (from the evolutionary standpoint) high in carbohydrate.
Furthermore, and related to more stable energy levels, the fat-burning metabolic state is associated with better muscle maintenance (anti-catabolism). As explained in NHE, this is because the sugar-burning state is connected with gluconeogenesis (which refers to the breakdown of protein to provide glucose to fuel the sugar-burning machine). You can avoid gluconeogenesis with frequent carbohydrate feedings, but then you’ve surrendered to sugar-burning; and the unhealthy effects of chronic insulin elevation are well established. The last thing I would recommend to someone trying to avoid degenerative diseases like type II diabetes, stopped-up arteries, and cancer is a high-carbohydrate diet. (Evidence increasingly shows a direct correlation between insulin levels and many types of cancer.) For some reason, bodybuilders feel they are immune to the adverse effects of a high-carbohydrate diet. But they’re not, as many discover later.
There are studies showing that a high-carb feeding post-workout helps suppress cortisol, but these studies (which are trumpeted to no end by the pro-carbo crowd) represent a snapshot in time. That which goes up must come down. What happens a couple hours later when blood sugar drops? If you are a sugar-burner, then when blood sugar levels fall you are subject to gluconeogenesis (because your body has been “trained” by your feeding pattern to produce sugar from protein), which represents the catabolic undoing of whatever anti-catabolic or anabolic “boost” you may have gotten from eating a lot of carbs post-workout.
Keep in mind that protein stimulates insulin, too, and a full-sized protein/fat meal (+ some carbs, optionally) calls forth plenty of insulin. It just doesn’t refill glycogen stores as quickly.
Glycogen Refueling
The other most commonly cited reason for consuming carbs post workout is that it “refills glycogen stores more rapidly.” Why is it beneficial refill glycogen stores as quickly as possible? Provided glycogen is adequately refilled by the time the next workout rolls around, there’s no good reason to refill glycogen stores as rapidly as possible. It won’t necessarily enhance anabolism, but it will r*tard fat-burning and send you on your way down the slippery slope toward sugar-burning.
An extremely important concept in this connection is “glycogen use efficiency,” discussed in NHE. Because of the human body’s complex feedback mechanisms and counterregulation, as with water, fat, vitamin C, etc. THE LESS YOU CONSUME, THE GREATER PROPORTION YOU RETAIN; AND THE MORE YOU CONSUME, THE LESSER PROPORTION YOU RETAIN. (This has obvious value from a survival standpoint, but its paradoxical nature represents a big-league curveball to those trying to figure-out the most nearly optimal diet.) Give a feasted man a cake and he might eat a slice and throw the rest away; give a famished man a cake and he will “store and save” the entire thing inside his body. You want all the carbs you eat to be “stored and saved” as glycogen, not wasted through gluconeogenesis or conversion to bodyfat. The only way this will happen is by “restricting” carbohydrate intake to levels that approximate the eating practices of our (now famous) ancient ancestor, before carb loading. Thus, boiled down, the ideal dietary formula with respect to carbs is seen to be: “moderate restriction most of the time” + “scheduled episodic loading.”
Other Considerations
Let’s take a moment to look at underlying reasons why people cling to carbohydrate myths.
Commercial – Applying common sense and the general knowledge we all share of “how the world works” if there is a gigantic economic incentive to promote carb consumption (especially to health enthusiasts – because we’re the most willing and ready to invest money in our physique) and no comparable countervailing economic incentive, then carb consumption will enjoy an advantage in the marketplace of ideas. This does NOT mean that every person who endorses high-carb consumption has a financial interest or unsavory motives. But it does mean that at the root or source of health information, a bias exists. By “root or source” I’m talking about the researchers working for the supplement companies, and the media (like fitness magazines) who select which studies to publicize and sell advertising space to supplement companies. If it took 30 years to win general acceptance of the fact that low-carb is healthier than high carb (despite Atkins’ persistent efforts and a chapter in NHE entitled: “You Broil Never Fry, But You’ve Been Living a Lie” filled with scientific references), are you sure that prevailing notions about the post-workout meal are not also mistaken?
Sensorial – In general, bodybuilders and athletes are more aware of certain physiological changes than the average person. This is because their range of physical sensations tends to be broader (for example: temporary exhaustion, sweating, greatly increased circulation and transient blood pressure increases, deeper sleep, sleep disturbances consequent to overtraining, a recovery process that intimately involves the immune system, occasional soreness, etc.). As discussed in NHE, the effects of a high-carb meal – which tend to be magnified in the post-workout period – are physiologically and neurochemically distinct, and, in respect to serotonin, potentially addictive. Bodybuilders who enjoy the “pump” of working-out will have a similar affinity for the post-workout “pump” of loading carbs. Take it from someone who many years ago, blindly following the mainstream, after working-out would eat a “vat” (as my brother Rick called it) of white rice directly from the stainless steel pot in which it was cooked. I think I once feel asleep at the kitchen table with the industrial-sized wooden “shovel” in hand. There are relatively few pleasures more enjoyable than carb-loading oneself into a blissful stupor after a grueling workout - and I believe Mr. Universe Dave Draper would heartily agree.
Remember, the greater challenge is not reducing bodyfat, but rather remaining lean. The NHE Eating Plan is a lifetime dietary strategy. As such, I encourage everyone on the plan to contact me with a progress report twice per year in addition to any questions that cannot be resolved by reference to the books, Ask Rob, or my replies to questions on davedraper.com. Ask Rob
--------------------
Natural Hormonal Enhancement
http://extique.com/
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