SHREDDEDBRAH
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Prolactine Gynecomastia Van Tren-E ?
- Topic starter SHREDDEDBRAH
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- prolactine
Pastasaus
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SHREDDEDBRAH
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Reinn
Competitive Bodybuilder
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Dan heb je merk spul. Gewoon generieke kopen.
SHREDDEDBRAH
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Waar te vinden, we mogen er toch over spreken aangzien het geen AAS is of wel ?
gerardschaap
Cool Novice
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2,5mg letro + 10mg nolva eod en je gyno is weg met 10 dagen.., je libido ook idd!
spreek je uit eigen ervaring?
zijn er ook mensen die hier voor naar specialist voor gaan?of betellen we maar gewoon wat .
en kan de dokter geen letro enzo voorschrijven dan kost het mischien niks
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u299778
Dutch Bodybuilder
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Alle ug merken hebben het in hun assortiment,vroeger stond ik er sceptisch tegenover maar tegenwoordig is er weinig bunk letro.
---------- Post toegevoegd Mon 5 Mar 2012 om 12:47 ----------
Je kunt ook voor bromocriptine gaan is veel goedkoper.
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Reverz
Cool Novice
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Die discussie is al lang gaande..
Dus dit is niet waar :
Nolvadex increases expression of the progesterone receptor, which will exacerbate any prolactin related issues one may be having with 19-nor's like Deca and Tren, and Anadrol(not a 19-nor, but is a DHT derivative that agonizes the progesterone receptor).
You are better off taking an AI like Arimidex/Aromasin/Letrozole if estrogen control is needed, and Cabergoline if prolactin is an issue.
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Most bodybuilders are aware that estrogen can cause gyno. Most steroid users are also fully aware that Trenbolone can cause gyno when taken by itself, even though it doesn’t convert to estrogen at all. How is this possible?
Two major theories of how Trenbolone could cause gyno symptoms have been theorized over the years. They believe that Tren causes the gyno, by directly stimulating either prolactin or progesterone receptors. Anabolic steroids Trenbolone and Deca are both progestins. Deca also converts to estrogen, but Tren does not. They are not to be confused with progesterone, but instead progestins, a type of progestogen, that can stimulate the progesterone receptor. Tren even converts to a metabolite in the body, that binds stronger to progesterone receptors than progesterone itself!
Directly increasing progesterone or prolactin doesn’t necessarily mean you will develop gyno according to research. The study (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1988 Jan;66(1):230-2) shows that progesterone works synergistically with estrogen, to stimulate breast production. According to (Clin Biochem 2001 Nov;38(Pt 6):596-607), prolactin only has a stimulatory effect on gynecomastia in the prescence of high circulating estrogen levels. Testosterone which aromotizes to estrogen caused a cause of increased prolactin according to (Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72). In the same study, Clomid (clomiphene) and Nolva (tamoxifen) showed a reduction in the man’s high levels of prolactin. There is no research evidence that I have found, that points to true breast development developing with just prolactin or progesterone alone or caused by non-aromotizing steroids, without any high circulating estrogen levels. Estrogen must be at high enough levels to work synergistically with high levels of prolactin or progesterone, to cause breast development and lactation.
Whether Tren stimulates prolactin or progesterone, without at least moderate levels of circulating estrogen at the same time in the body, Tren can’t cause full development of gyno. The real solution to curing gyno caused during a tren cycle therefore, is to take anti-estrogens, to lower circulating estrogen levels. Even if you are taking Tren by itself, you still will have a lot of estrogen circulating in your blood for a few weeks, until your natural testosterone levels shut down. Sensitive people to gyno might have to use a anti-estrogen, even when taking tren without other estrogen converting steroids, to lower natural estrogen levels in the body.
Many bodybuilders recommend using anti-prolactin drugs Bromocriptine or Cabaser / Dostinex (both Cabaser and Dostinex contain active ingredient Cabergoline), or even RU-486 “The abortion pill”, which is a progesterone blocker. These drugs have side effects are expensive and not commonly carried by many sources. I have heard reports from bodybuilders that bromocriptine didn’t help them, but strong anti-aromatase inhibitors like letrozole did. Therefore, it is better to use an anti-estrogen to combat tren based gyno. The only anti-estrogen I wouldn’t recommend for combatting this gyno is Nolva (tamoxifen) because in (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found progesterone receptor expression increased, while it decreased with other anti-aromatase inhibitors.
Dus samengevat, prolactine en progesteron werken synergetisch samen met oestrogeen. En versterken zo je borstklierontwikkeling, maar zonder oestrogeen is daar geen sprake van dus.
Maar inderdaad nolvadex is niet aan te raden, maar wel een andere anti-oestrogeen. Trenbolone hecht trouwens zelf ook aan de progesteron receptor, oa.
Two major theories of how Trenbolone could cause gyno symptoms have been theorized over the years. They believe that Tren causes the gyno, by directly stimulating either prolactin or progesterone receptors. Anabolic steroids Trenbolone and Deca are both progestins. Deca also converts to estrogen, but Tren does not. They are not to be confused with progesterone, but instead progestins, a type of progestogen, that can stimulate the progesterone receptor. Tren even converts to a metabolite in the body, that binds stronger to progesterone receptors than progesterone itself!
Directly increasing progesterone or prolactin doesn’t necessarily mean you will develop gyno according to research. The study (J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1988 Jan;66(1):230-2) shows that progesterone works synergistically with estrogen, to stimulate breast production. According to (Clin Biochem 2001 Nov;38(Pt 6):596-607), prolactin only has a stimulatory effect on gynecomastia in the prescence of high circulating estrogen levels. Testosterone which aromotizes to estrogen caused a cause of increased prolactin according to (Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72). In the same study, Clomid (clomiphene) and Nolva (tamoxifen) showed a reduction in the man’s high levels of prolactin. There is no research evidence that I have found, that points to true breast development developing with just prolactin or progesterone alone or caused by non-aromotizing steroids, without any high circulating estrogen levels. Estrogen must be at high enough levels to work synergistically with high levels of prolactin or progesterone, to cause breast development and lactation.
Whether Tren stimulates prolactin or progesterone, without at least moderate levels of circulating estrogen at the same time in the body, Tren can’t cause full development of gyno. The real solution to curing gyno caused during a tren cycle therefore, is to take anti-estrogens, to lower circulating estrogen levels. Even if you are taking Tren by itself, you still will have a lot of estrogen circulating in your blood for a few weeks, until your natural testosterone levels shut down. Sensitive people to gyno might have to use a anti-estrogen, even when taking tren without other estrogen converting steroids, to lower natural estrogen levels in the body.
Many bodybuilders recommend using anti-prolactin drugs Bromocriptine or Cabaser / Dostinex (both Cabaser and Dostinex contain active ingredient Cabergoline), or even RU-486 “The abortion pill”, which is a progesterone blocker. These drugs have side effects are expensive and not commonly carried by many sources. I have heard reports from bodybuilders that bromocriptine didn’t help them, but strong anti-aromatase inhibitors like letrozole did. Therefore, it is better to use an anti-estrogen to combat tren based gyno. The only anti-estrogen I wouldn’t recommend for combatting this gyno is Nolva (tamoxifen) because in (J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol. 2003 Sep;86(3-5):461-7) they found progesterone receptor expression increased, while it decreased with other anti-aromatase inhibitors.
Dus samengevat, prolactine en progesteron werken synergetisch samen met oestrogeen. En versterken zo je borstklierontwikkeling, maar zonder oestrogeen is daar geen sprake van dus.
Maar inderdaad nolvadex is niet aan te raden, maar wel een andere anti-oestrogeen. Trenbolone hecht trouwens zelf ook aan de progesteron receptor, oa.
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u299778
Dutch Bodybuilder
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SHREDDEDBRAH
Competitive Bodybuilder
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Heb 2weken Nolva genomen op 20mg geen verschil dan overgestapt op halve caps arofixen tot nu toe ook geen verschil
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SHREDDEDBRAH
Competitive Bodybuilder
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Dacht ik ook al, maar om zeker te zijn of het niet eerder van de sust kwam
zat meestal op 500test en nooit last van gehad nu ben ik 100% zeker dat het een prolactine gyno is
Ironmind
Huge Freak
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Examestane is niet zo sterk als Letro in het onderdrukken van oestrogeen, overstappen dus op femara en de arofixen laten staan..
---------- Post toegevoegd Wed 7 Mar 2012 om 20:47 ----------
Ja, eigen ervaring idd. Tabje van 2,5mg was meer dan voldoende bij mij icm 10mg nolva EOD, om gyno te reduceren.
Dokters voorschrift kun je op je buik schrijven, tis best link spul.
Vervelende side bij mij is btw dat libido compleet wegvalt.., houdt hier rekening mee!
gerardschaap
Cool Novice
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gerardschaap
Cool Novice
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SHREDDEDBRAH
Competitive Bodybuilder
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ze zij dat een operatie het enige was wat ze er aan konden doen en dat vond ze wel er ver gaan voor zoon klein bultje
ik zij dat als je googleld dat je wel je ziet dat er wel medicijnen de werkentoen ver wees ze me door
Het valt bij me ook wel best mee hoor.
ik was van plan om na deze kuur te gaan cutten op prop,Ace,winny en zou niet willen dat het groter wordt
gerardschaap
Cool Novice
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snap wat je bedoeld wou eigenlijk ik wat doen na een jaar of4
toen kwam er een rekening tussen en die bult
nu heb ik die afspraak staan dan kan moeilijk beginnen
ik wou daarom bold proberen omdat die wat milder is
