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Shocking News MH7 vanuit Amsterdam neergeschoten boven Oekraïne
- Topic starter StickySteeez
- Startdatum
- Recente activiteit Recente activiteit:
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virusje
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Gameboy
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Klopt, doe het nu meer voor mezelf zodat ik een ''archief'' heb.
En ja het is wel duidelijk voor de grote massa dat het de Russen waren.(zonder enig bewijs)
Niks geleerd van de geschiedenis zeker?
''Through clever and constant application of propaganda, people can be made to see paradise as hell, and also the other way round, to consider the most wretched sort of life as paradise.''
''Any alliance whose purpose is not the intention to wage war is senseless and useless.''
''Great liars are also great magicians.''
''What good fortune for governments that the people do not think.''
''I use emotion for the many and reserve reason for the few.''
''If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed.''
''It is not truth that matters, but victory.''
''The great masses of the people will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one.''
''The victor will never be asked if he told the truth.''
Oh ja, jouw archief.
Kan dat niet op een usb stick of zo? T al in kennis gesteld dat er nog een aantal bytes extra vrij gemaakt moeten worden?
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Oh ja, jouw archief.
Krijg een aparte server, wel natuurlijk omgeleid via Rusland zodat de NSA er niet bij kan.
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DL link in karma?
virusje
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Oke expert!
Ja je loopt maar te emmeren over propaganda dit en propaganda dat en ondertussen zit je zelf alleen maar russische staatspropaganda te posten en vergeet je even de meest voor de hand liggende oorzaak.
En dan nog t lef hebben om wat random hitler quotes erbij te halen
virusje
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Ja je loopt maar te emmeren over propaganda dit en propaganda dat en ondertussen zit je zelf alleen maar russische staatspropaganda te posten en vergeet je even de meest voor de hand liggende oorzaak.
En dan nog t lef hebben om wat random hitler quotes erbij te halen
Tymboo je hebt helemaal gelijk man, ik zet mijn aluhoedje er voor af.
Jou 25 posts hebben ook veel meer toegevoegd aan dit topic dan al die achterlijke theorieën en nieuwsberichten van mij.
Prima kerel die Hitler! Heb ook een bron om deze claim te ondersteunen.
virusje
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Iedereen klaar met te complottheorist provoceren? dan kan ik weer verder ontopic gaan. 
MH17: wie onderzoekt nu wat?
---------- Toegevoegd om 19:01 ---------- De post hierboven werd geplaatst om 19:00 ----------
NL-team op rampplek: voelt veilig
MH17: wie onderzoekt nu wat?
Acht dagen na de ramp met vlucht MH17 lopen er drie aparte onderzoeken. Al vrij snel na de crash gaf Nederland aan dat het identificeren en het bergen van de slachtoffers de eerste prioriteit heeft. Ten tweede wordt onderzoek gedaan naar de oorzaak van de ramp, en tenslotte wordt gezocht naar schuldigen.
Hieronder een overzicht hoe het er met de drie onderzoeken voor staat.
Lichamen zoeken en identificeren
Vanavond om 21:00 uur vertrekt een team van 40 marechaussees en 21 onderzoekers richting Charkov. Zij gaan onbewapend in het veld in Oost-Oekraïne zoeken naar slachtoffers en onderzoek doen. In Charkov zitten inmiddels al onderzoekers van het Landelijk Team Forensische Opsporing.
Het onderzoek in het veld en in Kiev, gebeurt in samenwerking met inzet van OVSE en forensische onderzoekscapaciteit uit verschillende landen. In Londen staan nog ongeveer 100 agenten van de Australische federale politie klaar. Mocht het nodig zijn, dan vliegen ook zij door naar Oekraïne.
De oorzaak
Het onderzoek naar de oorzaak van de ramp wordt geleid door de Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid. Een internationaal team van 25 onderzoekers zat tot nu toe vast in Kiev. Zaterdag of zondag vertrekt een deel van de experts naar het rampgebied.
Vermoedelijk gaan ze een aantal korte bezoeken brengen, afhankelijk van de veiligheidssituatie. Die wordt per dag beoordeeld.
De Onderzoeksraad denkt eind volgende week de eerste resultaten te kunnen presenteren.
Justitieel onderzoek
Is er een schuldige aan te wijzen? Om die vraag te beantwoorden willen alle landen waar de slachtoffers vandaan komen willen tot een gezamenlijk aanpak komen.
Maandag is in Den Haag een bijeenkomst met officieren van justitie van de betrokken landen. De bedoeling is om dan samen, onder de vlag van het Europese justitienetwerk Eurojust, tot een gezamenlijke aanpak te komen.
De Nederlandse officier van justitie Thijs Berger is op dit moment nog in Oekraïne om onderzoek te doen.
Hieronder een overzicht hoe het er met de drie onderzoeken voor staat.
Lichamen zoeken en identificeren
Vanavond om 21:00 uur vertrekt een team van 40 marechaussees en 21 onderzoekers richting Charkov. Zij gaan onbewapend in het veld in Oost-Oekraïne zoeken naar slachtoffers en onderzoek doen. In Charkov zitten inmiddels al onderzoekers van het Landelijk Team Forensische Opsporing.
Het onderzoek in het veld en in Kiev, gebeurt in samenwerking met inzet van OVSE en forensische onderzoekscapaciteit uit verschillende landen. In Londen staan nog ongeveer 100 agenten van de Australische federale politie klaar. Mocht het nodig zijn, dan vliegen ook zij door naar Oekraïne.
De oorzaak
Het onderzoek naar de oorzaak van de ramp wordt geleid door de Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid. Een internationaal team van 25 onderzoekers zat tot nu toe vast in Kiev. Zaterdag of zondag vertrekt een deel van de experts naar het rampgebied.
Vermoedelijk gaan ze een aantal korte bezoeken brengen, afhankelijk van de veiligheidssituatie. Die wordt per dag beoordeeld.
De Onderzoeksraad denkt eind volgende week de eerste resultaten te kunnen presenteren.
Justitieel onderzoek
Is er een schuldige aan te wijzen? Om die vraag te beantwoorden willen alle landen waar de slachtoffers vandaan komen willen tot een gezamenlijk aanpak komen.
Maandag is in Den Haag een bijeenkomst met officieren van justitie van de betrokken landen. De bedoeling is om dan samen, onder de vlag van het Europese justitienetwerk Eurojust, tot een gezamenlijke aanpak te komen.
De Nederlandse officier van justitie Thijs Berger is op dit moment nog in Oekraïne om onderzoek te doen.
---------- Toegevoegd om 19:01 ---------- De post hierboven werd geplaatst om 19:00 ----------
NL-team op rampplek: voelt veilig
Enkele Nederlandse forensisch onderzoekers zijn vandaag samen met de OVSE in het rampgebied in Oost-Oekraïne geweest. Ze concludeerden dat het er veilig is, zegt correspondent David Jan Godfroid, die met ze meereisde.
De twee Nederlanders, van het Team Forensische Opsporing (LTFO), landden vanochtend in Donetsk. Daar zijn ze door de OVSE geïnformeerd over het gebied, waarna ze in een colonne van zo'n tien auto's vertrokken naar de rampplek.
"Geen moment onveilig"
Daar keken ze rond, maakten ze foto's en luisterden ze naar de OVSE'ers, zegt Godfroid. "Ze hebben geen nieuwe plekken bezocht en ze hebben niet gezocht naar lichamen. Het belangrijkste was het in kaart brengen van de locaties waar wrakstukken liggen en de grootte van het gebied."
De Nederlandse teamleider Michel Öz zei dat hij zich geen moment onveilig heeft gevoeld. Met het team reisden gewapende separatisten mee, maar zij hielden afstand als ze op een plek aankwamen waar een wrakstuk lag. "De onderzoekers konden doen en laten wat ze wilden", aldus Godfroid.
Het LTFO houdt zich vooral bezig met de repatriëring van de lichamen. Vermoedelijk liggen er nog altijd menselijke resten in het gebied.
Het is de bedoeling dat morgen of overmorgen ook leden van de Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid in het gebied aankomen. Zij doen onderzoek naar de oorzaak van de ramp.
De twee Nederlanders, van het Team Forensische Opsporing (LTFO), landden vanochtend in Donetsk. Daar zijn ze door de OVSE geïnformeerd over het gebied, waarna ze in een colonne van zo'n tien auto's vertrokken naar de rampplek.
"Geen moment onveilig"
Daar keken ze rond, maakten ze foto's en luisterden ze naar de OVSE'ers, zegt Godfroid. "Ze hebben geen nieuwe plekken bezocht en ze hebben niet gezocht naar lichamen. Het belangrijkste was het in kaart brengen van de locaties waar wrakstukken liggen en de grootte van het gebied."
De Nederlandse teamleider Michel Öz zei dat hij zich geen moment onveilig heeft gevoeld. Met het team reisden gewapende separatisten mee, maar zij hielden afstand als ze op een plek aankwamen waar een wrakstuk lag. "De onderzoekers konden doen en laten wat ze wilden", aldus Godfroid.
Het LTFO houdt zich vooral bezig met de repatriëring van de lichamen. Vermoedelijk liggen er nog altijd menselijke resten in het gebied.
Het is de bedoeling dat morgen of overmorgen ook leden van de Onderzoeksraad voor Veiligheid in het gebied aankomen. Zij doen onderzoek naar de oorzaak van de ramp.
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EU sanctions on Russia hurt more than it seems
Words of wisdom from Avi Dichter, a former chief of Israel’s internal intelligence service, the Shin Bet, who knows a thing or two about psychological warfare.
He was speaking in Brussels - at the outset of the Syrian war - on the deterrent effect of potential EU sanctions.
The EU sticks did nothing to help.
But the Western stick over the head of Russian leader Vladimir Putin is heavier and east Ukraine is not Syria: Putin can switch off the killing. He does not face an existential threat if he does.
The EU has been playing psychological games with the Kremlin for the past three months.
Following MH17, the stick - the threat of economic sanctions - is poised to strike a blow on Tuesday (29 July) against Russia’s “access to capital markets, defence [contracts], dual use goods and sensitive technology including in the energy sector”.
It is likely to disappoint EU hawks.
There will be limits to the kind of debt that Russian firms cannot buy, loopholes for France to deliver a warship to Russia, and language on the “reversibility” of sanctions if Putin makes nice.
But even if the physical pain is small, the pain of the “uncertainty” of future action is just as real and increasing by the day.
Last week EU sources - for the first time in the crisis - leaked a paper on sanction options.
It includes, as a last resort, “capital market restrictions … prohibition of new investment in Russia … an import ban on gas … [and] an import ban on oil”.
Later the same week, they leaked a second paper on the options currently under consideration.
They include a ban on Russian state-owned banks’ buying of long-term bonds from EU banks. But the paper notes the ban can later be extended to EU sovereign bonds and to other Russian firms.
It adds that the idea is to “foster a climate of market uncertainty that is likely to affect the business environment in Russia and accelerate capital outflows”.
Risk is back
Senior EU and US diplomats are meeting every week to co-ordinate the message on Russia: that political risk is back.
They are telling journalists that allies - such as Japan, Norway, Singapore, or South Korea - might take additional, unspecified actions.
The US earlier this month also imposed mini-restrictions on capital access for four Russian firms while threatening more to come.
Its top diplomat on Ukraine, Victoria Nuland, told press that its target audience was non-Russian.
“The reaction of the markets is perhaps more important than the reaction by Moscow … It will take time for this to have an impact on [Putin’s] geostrategic calculations. I don’t think anyone expected a change in policy overnight”, she said.
Unlike the Shin Bet and its “stick,” Nuland described the creation of market uncertainty as “a scalpel … a new tool of European and US foreign policy”.
Putin himself, a former spy chief, tends not to blink. According to the British daily, The Times, his trainers in what was then called the KGB, said he has “a lowered sense of danger”.
Ordinary people who live in former Soviet states also have a high pain threshold.
Back in 2006, when the EU began to heap sanctions on Belarus, a 60-year old taxi driver in Minsk told EUobserver: “Look. What do I care? So long as there is no war, and I can get potatoes, hot water in winter, and a bottle of vodka - I don’t need much more”.
But the psychology of international markets and of the new Russian elite is different.
Risk premiums on investments in Russia are going up, the value of the ruble is going down, Russian GDP growth is cooling, and capital outflow is rising.
A senior source in one Western multinational firm, which is in talks with a potential Russian partner, told this website: “I’m not sure what these sanctions really mean. But it makes me feel uncomfortable”.
A contact at one large German bank added: “A general feeling of uncertainty is enough to hinder investment”.
For its part, the Russian central bank on Friday raised interest rates to attract foreign investors, who will get a bigger return on ruble-denominated financial instruments. But a source at one big Swiss bank noted that the move will have the “opposite effect” on the Russian domestic economy, where firms will have to pay more to get loans.
The bank contacts did not want to speak on the record because of the “sensitivity” of the subject.
It’s normal for some sources to be shy. But the heightened level of sensitivity is linked to the heightened level of uncertainty on doing business with Russia.
Potatoes enough?
Meanwhile, in terms of soundbites, not everybody is happy with potatoes and hot water.
One EUobserver contact recently overheard a Russian family checking out of a top hotel in London. The clerk declined their credit cards because she’d heard that Russia-linked Visa and Mastercard transactions “might be under some kind of sanctions”.
“Look what Putin is doing to us!” the Russian hotel guest said.
A Western diplomatic source in Moscow added that even ex-KGB hardmen are not immune to concern.
“It’s clearly beginning to hurt. The EU and the US have shown they are willing to go after big fish. It caused shock. The talk of the upcoming EU package [of sanctions] has made an impact on the boss [Putin] and on his immediate entourage”, the contact said.
He was speaking in Brussels - at the outset of the Syrian war - on the deterrent effect of potential EU sanctions.
The EU sticks did nothing to help.
But the Western stick over the head of Russian leader Vladimir Putin is heavier and east Ukraine is not Syria: Putin can switch off the killing. He does not face an existential threat if he does.
The EU has been playing psychological games with the Kremlin for the past three months.
Following MH17, the stick - the threat of economic sanctions - is poised to strike a blow on Tuesday (29 July) against Russia’s “access to capital markets, defence [contracts], dual use goods and sensitive technology including in the energy sector”.
It is likely to disappoint EU hawks.
There will be limits to the kind of debt that Russian firms cannot buy, loopholes for France to deliver a warship to Russia, and language on the “reversibility” of sanctions if Putin makes nice.
But even if the physical pain is small, the pain of the “uncertainty” of future action is just as real and increasing by the day.
Last week EU sources - for the first time in the crisis - leaked a paper on sanction options.
It includes, as a last resort, “capital market restrictions … prohibition of new investment in Russia … an import ban on gas … [and] an import ban on oil”.
Later the same week, they leaked a second paper on the options currently under consideration.
They include a ban on Russian state-owned banks’ buying of long-term bonds from EU banks. But the paper notes the ban can later be extended to EU sovereign bonds and to other Russian firms.
It adds that the idea is to “foster a climate of market uncertainty that is likely to affect the business environment in Russia and accelerate capital outflows”.
Risk is back
Senior EU and US diplomats are meeting every week to co-ordinate the message on Russia: that political risk is back.
They are telling journalists that allies - such as Japan, Norway, Singapore, or South Korea - might take additional, unspecified actions.
The US earlier this month also imposed mini-restrictions on capital access for four Russian firms while threatening more to come.
Its top diplomat on Ukraine, Victoria Nuland, told press that its target audience was non-Russian.
“The reaction of the markets is perhaps more important than the reaction by Moscow … It will take time for this to have an impact on [Putin’s] geostrategic calculations. I don’t think anyone expected a change in policy overnight”, she said.
Unlike the Shin Bet and its “stick,” Nuland described the creation of market uncertainty as “a scalpel … a new tool of European and US foreign policy”.
Putin himself, a former spy chief, tends not to blink. According to the British daily, The Times, his trainers in what was then called the KGB, said he has “a lowered sense of danger”.
Ordinary people who live in former Soviet states also have a high pain threshold.
Back in 2006, when the EU began to heap sanctions on Belarus, a 60-year old taxi driver in Minsk told EUobserver: “Look. What do I care? So long as there is no war, and I can get potatoes, hot water in winter, and a bottle of vodka - I don’t need much more”.
But the psychology of international markets and of the new Russian elite is different.
Risk premiums on investments in Russia are going up, the value of the ruble is going down, Russian GDP growth is cooling, and capital outflow is rising.
A senior source in one Western multinational firm, which is in talks with a potential Russian partner, told this website: “I’m not sure what these sanctions really mean. But it makes me feel uncomfortable”.
A contact at one large German bank added: “A general feeling of uncertainty is enough to hinder investment”.
For its part, the Russian central bank on Friday raised interest rates to attract foreign investors, who will get a bigger return on ruble-denominated financial instruments. But a source at one big Swiss bank noted that the move will have the “opposite effect” on the Russian domestic economy, where firms will have to pay more to get loans.
The bank contacts did not want to speak on the record because of the “sensitivity” of the subject.
It’s normal for some sources to be shy. But the heightened level of sensitivity is linked to the heightened level of uncertainty on doing business with Russia.
Potatoes enough?
Meanwhile, in terms of soundbites, not everybody is happy with potatoes and hot water.
One EUobserver contact recently overheard a Russian family checking out of a top hotel in London. The clerk declined their credit cards because she’d heard that Russia-linked Visa and Mastercard transactions “might be under some kind of sanctions”.
“Look what Putin is doing to us!” the Russian hotel guest said.
A Western diplomatic source in Moscow added that even ex-KGB hardmen are not immune to concern.
“It’s clearly beginning to hurt. The EU and the US have shown they are willing to go after big fish. It caused shock. The talk of the upcoming EU package [of sanctions] has made an impact on the boss [Putin] and on his immediate entourage”, the contact said.
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Nice find virusje
virusje
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Flight MH17 Crash Resulted From Ukraine’s Disregard of ICAO Regulations
MOSCOW, July 24 (RIA Novosti) – The Ukrainian government is responsible for the tragic Malaysia Airlines plane crash as Kiev is under binding international legal obligations articulated in the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation and ICAO regulation DOC 9554/932.
Ukraine ratified the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation in 2003, which automatically classifies Ukraine as a member of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) with all the associated legal obligations applicable upon signing.
An amendment to the Chicago Convention, the so-called Article 3bis, obliges the signatories to “refrain from resorting to the use of weapons against civil aircraft in flight,” as such behavior goes out of line with the standards and norms regulating cross-country interactions. Hence, no country can use ongoing military confrontation on its territory as a right to attack a commercial plane or other types of civil aircraft
Additionally, the ICAO clearly defines in its Manual Concerning Safety Measures Relating to Military Activities Potentially Hazardous to Civil Aircraft Operations, that “the responsibility for initiating the co-ordination process rests with the States whose military forces are engaged in the conflict,” pursuant to Paragraph 10.2 of the respective international agreement. In other words, safe passage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 through Ukrainian airspace should have been coordinated well in advance, as stipulated in the manual.
Better yet, incomplete coordination or lack thereof does not relieve the state of its safety obligations, as “the responsibility for instituting special measures to ensure the safety of international civil aircraft operations remains with the states responsible for providing air traffic services in the airspace affected by the conflict, even in cases where coordination is not initiated or completed.” This excludes any loophole that might be used by Ukraine to evade being held accountable for the tragedy.
A Malaysia Airlines plane heading from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed July 17 near the city of Donetsk in Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board. United Nations, Russia and heads of several countries stressed an importance of a transparent international investigation to determine the circumstances and causes of the accident.
Meanwhile, Kiev accused the independence supporters in the turbulent Donetsk Region of downing the passenger plane with a surface-to-air missile. The leader of the Donetsk People’s Republic said local militia did not have the means to shoot down a target at flying at such a high altitude.
In a July 21 briefing, representatives of the Russian military released some of the data gathered as part of the probe into the July 17 crash, stating that Russian monitoring systems detected up to four Ukrainian Buk M1 air defense systems in the vicinity of the crash on the day of the accident. Compounded with increased activity of Ukrainian radars and a military aircraft approaching the passenger plane sometime before the disaster, it looks like Kiev has more questions to answer.
While the investigation into the crash is still underway, Kiev’s breach of international agreements provoking the tragedy can hardly be denied.
Ukraine ratified the Chicago Convention on International Civil Aviation in 2003, which automatically classifies Ukraine as a member of the International Civil Aviation Organization (ICAO) with all the associated legal obligations applicable upon signing.
An amendment to the Chicago Convention, the so-called Article 3bis, obliges the signatories to “refrain from resorting to the use of weapons against civil aircraft in flight,” as such behavior goes out of line with the standards and norms regulating cross-country interactions. Hence, no country can use ongoing military confrontation on its territory as a right to attack a commercial plane or other types of civil aircraft
Additionally, the ICAO clearly defines in its Manual Concerning Safety Measures Relating to Military Activities Potentially Hazardous to Civil Aircraft Operations, that “the responsibility for initiating the co-ordination process rests with the States whose military forces are engaged in the conflict,” pursuant to Paragraph 10.2 of the respective international agreement. In other words, safe passage of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 through Ukrainian airspace should have been coordinated well in advance, as stipulated in the manual.
Better yet, incomplete coordination or lack thereof does not relieve the state of its safety obligations, as “the responsibility for instituting special measures to ensure the safety of international civil aircraft operations remains with the states responsible for providing air traffic services in the airspace affected by the conflict, even in cases where coordination is not initiated or completed.” This excludes any loophole that might be used by Ukraine to evade being held accountable for the tragedy.
A Malaysia Airlines plane heading from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed July 17 near the city of Donetsk in Ukraine, killing all 298 people on board. United Nations, Russia and heads of several countries stressed an importance of a transparent international investigation to determine the circumstances and causes of the accident.
Meanwhile, Kiev accused the independence supporters in the turbulent Donetsk Region of downing the passenger plane with a surface-to-air missile. The leader of the Donetsk People’s Republic said local militia did not have the means to shoot down a target at flying at such a high altitude.
In a July 21 briefing, representatives of the Russian military released some of the data gathered as part of the probe into the July 17 crash, stating that Russian monitoring systems detected up to four Ukrainian Buk M1 air defense systems in the vicinity of the crash on the day of the accident. Compounded with increased activity of Ukrainian radars and a military aircraft approaching the passenger plane sometime before the disaster, it looks like Kiev has more questions to answer.
While the investigation into the crash is still underway, Kiev’s breach of international agreements provoking the tragedy can hardly be denied.
virusje
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Thanks, vooral die laatste video.
Die video is opgenomen een maand voor de crash en ze omschrijft eigenlijk al het mogelijke scenario.
---------- Toegevoegd om 19:14 ---------- De post hierboven werd geplaatst om 19:11 ----------
Ik post uit beide partijen en onafhankelijke partijen, zo kan je goed een objectief beeld vormen.
Helaas leest/bekijkt 90% van de members hier gewoon niks en schreeuwt maar een eind weg.
Gameboy
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De lezer kan zelf wel een selectie maken op het net. Wat heb je nou aan die enorme stroom aan artikelen?
Wordt er weer gepost, kom je steeds jouw naam tegen. Mensen gaan nu afhaken denk ik.