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Testosteron enanthaat: feiten en verzinsels!

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DE FEITEN OVER TEST ENANTHAAT:

Werking Testosteron enanthaat:
-T E verhoogt VetVrije Massa (VVM) en krachttoename, maar heeft geen invloed op spiermoeheid. De toename in spiermassa wordt veroorzaakt door een verhoogde netto proteine synthese en hergebruik van intracellulaire aminozuren in skeletspieren.
-De meeste studies laten een significante dosis-afhankelijke vermindering in vetweefsel zien door T E.
-Je wint wel VVM door T E wanneer je niet bulkt.
-Je wint wel VVM door T E wanneer je slechts 1,2-1,5 g/kg eiwit gebruikt.

Bijwerkingen:
-T E verandert het humeur niet en geeft geen aanleiding tot agressief gedrag. Vreemd genoeg is de door veel mensen gerapporteerdere verhoging in seksueelfunctioneren niet terug gevonden in dubbelblind uitgevoerde, gerandomiseerde, placebo gecontrolleerde onderzoeken bij doseringen t/m 600 mg T E/week.....
-T E verandert PSA (prostaat) en lever enzymen niet.
-T E verandert cholesterol, triglyceriden en LDL niet, maar is negatief gecorreleerd aan HDL.
-200 mg T E/week gedurende 15 maanden vermindert spermaconcentratie, maar heeft geen negatief effect op de werking van de overblijvende spermatozoa.
-Lange termijn effecten van T E op de prostaat en het hart zijn onbekend. Maar 1 apenstudie (33 maanden) laat een significante toename in het gewicht van beide prostaatlobben zien.
-Oudere mannen krijgen dezelfde verhoging in VVM en krachttoename, maar hebben wel meer side effects door T E. De gecombineerde supplementatie van finasteride met T E verminderd de impact van testosteron op prostaat grootte en PSA in oudere mannen.

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men
To determine the effects of graded doses of testosterone on body composition, muscle size, strength, power, coïtusual and cognitive functions, prostate-specific antigen (PSA), plasma lipids, hemoglobin, and insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) levels, 61 eugonadal men, 18-35 yr, were randomized to one of five groups to receive monthly injections of a long-acting gonadotropin-releasing hormone (GnRH) agonist, to suppress endogenous testosterone secretion, and weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. Energy and protein intakes were standardized. The administration of the GnRH agonist plus graded doses of testosterone resulted in mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1,345, and 2,370 ng/dl at the 25-, 50-, 125-, 300-, and 600-mg doses, respectively. Fat-free mass increased dose dependently in men receiving 125, 300, or 600 mg of testosterone weekly (change +3.4, 5.2, and 7.9 kg, respectively). The changes in fat-free mass were highly dependent on testosterone dose (P = 0.0001) and correlated with log testosterone concentrations (r = 0.73, P = 0.0001). Changes in leg press strength, leg power, thigh and quadriceps muscle volumes, hemoglobin, and IGF-I were positively correlated with testosterone concentrations, whereas changes in fat mass and plasma high-density lipoprotein (HDL) cholesterol were negatively correlated. Sexual function, visual-spatial cognition and mood, and PSA levels did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that changes in circulating testosterone concentrations, induced by GnRH agonist and testosterone administration, are associated with testosterone dose- and concentration-dependent changes in fat-free mass, muscle size, strength and power, fat mass, hemoglobin, HDL cholesterol, and IGF-I levels, in conformity with a single linear dose-response relationship. However, different androgen-dependent processes have different testosterone dose-response relationships.

This was a double-blind, randomized study consisting of a 4-wk control period, a 20-wk treatment period, and a 16-wk recovery period.

The participants were healthy men, 18-35 yr of age, with prior weight-lifting experience and normal testosterone levels.

Energy and protein intakes were standardized at 36 kcal · kg-1 · day-1 and 1.2 g · kg-1 · day-1, respectively.

To determine whether the apparent changes in fat-free mass by DEXA scan and underwater weighing represented water retention, we measured total body water and compared the ratios of total body water to fat-free mass before and after treatment in each group. The ratios of total body water to fat-free mass by underwater weighing did not significantly change with treatment in any treatment group (Table 3), indicating that the apparent increase in fat-free mass measured by underwater weighing did not represent water retention in excess of that associated with protein accretion.

Body composition analysis:
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content-nw/full/281/6/E1172/T3

Change in fat-free mass (A), fat mass (B), leg press strength (C), thigh muscle volume (D), quadriceps muscle volume (E), coïtusual function (F), insulin-like growth factor I (G), and prostate-specific antigen (H):
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content-nw/full/281/6/E1172/F1

Total cholesterol, plasma low-density lipoprotein cholesterol, and triglyceride levels did not change significantly at any dose. Serum PSA, creatinine, bilirubin, alanine aminotransferase, and alkaline phosphatase did not change significantly in any group, but aspartate aminotransferase decreased significantly in the 25-mg group. Two men in the 25-mg group, five in the 50-mg group, three in the 125-mg group, seven in the 300-mg group, and two in the 600-mg group developed acne.
The treatment regimen was well tolerated. There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown.
There were no significant changes in overall coïtusual activity or coïtusual desire in any group, including those receiving the 25-mg dose.
We did not find significant changes in PSA at any dose, indicating that the lowest dose of testosterone maintained PSA levels. We did not measure prostate volume in this study; therefore, we do not know whether prostate volume exhibits the same relationship with testosterone dose as PSA levels.

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172



The Effects of Supraphysiologic Doses of Testosterone on Muscle Size and Strength in Normal Men
We randomly assigned 43 normal men to one of four groups: placebo with no exercise, testosterone with no exercise, placebo plus exercise, and testosterone plus exercise. The men received injections of 600 mg of testosterone enanthate or placebo weekly for 10 weeks. The men in the exercise groups performed standardized weight-lifting exercises three times weekly.
Among the men in the no-exercise groups, those given testosterone had greater increases than those given placebo in muscle size in their arms (mean [±SE] change in triceps area, 424±104 vs. -81±109 mm2; P<0.05) and legs (change in quadriceps area, 607±123 vs. -131±111 mm2; P<0.05) and greater increases in strength in the bench-press (9±4 vs. -1±1 kg, P<0.05) and squatting exercises (16±4 vs. 3±1 kg, P<0.05). The men assigned to testosterone and exercise had greater increases in fat-free mass (6.1±0.6 kg) and muscle size (triceps area, 501±104 mm2; quadriceps area, 1174±91 mm2) than those assigned to either no-exercise group, and greater increases in muscle strength (bench-press strength, 22±2 kg; squatting-exercise capacity, 38±4 kg) than either no-exercise group. Neither mood nor behavior was altered in any group.

The subjects were normal men weighing 90 to 115 percent of their ideal body weights; they were 19 to 40 years of age and had experience with weight lifting.

Two weeks before day 1, the men were instructed to begin following a standardized daily diet containing 36 kcal per kilogram of body weight, 1.5 g of protein per kilogram, and 100 percent of the recommended daily allowance of vitamins, minerals, and trace elements. The dietary intake was adjusted every two weeks on the basis of changes in body weight.

Acne developed in three men receiving testosterone and one receiving placebo, and two men receiving testosterone reported breast tenderness, but no other side effects were noted. The serum liver-enzyme concentrations, hemoglobin concentrations, hematocrits, and red-cell counts did not change in any study group (Table 2). Serum creatinine concentrations did not change, except in the testosterone-plus-exercise group, in which the mean (±SE) serum creatinine concentration increased from 1.0 mg per deciliter (88 µmol per liter) to 1.1 mg per deciliter (97 µmol per liter) (P=0.02). Plasma concentrations of total and LDL cholesterol and triglycerides did not change in any study group; plasma HDL cholesterol decreased significantly in the placebo-plus-exercise group. There was no change in the serum concentration of prostate-specific antigen in any group.

The base-line serum concentrations of luteinizing hormone, follicle-stimulating hormone, and coïtus hormone-binding globulin were similar in the four groups, and the concentrations decreased significantly in the two testosterone groups:
[Link niet meer beschikbaar]

Fat-free mass did not change significantly in the group assigned to placebo but no exercise (Table 4 and Figure 1). The men treated with testosterone but no exercise had an increase of 3.2 kg in fat-free mass, and those in the placebo-plus-exercise group had an increase of 1.9 kg. The increase in the testosterone-plus-exercise group was substantially greater (averaging 6.1 kg). The percentage of body fat did not change significantly in any group (data not shown):
[Link niet meer beschikbaar]

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/335/1/1?ijkey=7bd3ad13ebc92b4f32d4393ece135057dd181c27



Effect of testosterone administration and weight training on muscle architecture.
PURPOSE: The purpose of this study was to assess muscle architecture changes in subjects who were administered supraphysiologic doses of testosterone enanthate (TE) and concurrently performed heavy resistance training. METHODS: Ten subjects were randomly selected from the 21 subjects who participated in a previously published study (12). Subjects were allocated to one of two groups as per Giorgi et al. (12) and received either a saline-based placebo (nonTE) or a 3.5-mg.kg-1 body weight dose of TE by deep intramuscular injection once a week for 12 wk. Subjects also performed heavy resistance training using exercises that targeted the triceps brachii muscle. Before and after the training period, free-weight one-repetition-maximum (1-RM) bench press strength was tested, muscle thickness and pennation of the triceps brachii lateralis were measured using ultrasound imaging, and fascicle length was estimated from ultrasound photographs. RESULTS: There were no significant between-group differences in muscle thickness changes despite a trend toward increased thickness in TE subjects (TE, 23.5%, vs nonTE, 13.8%). However, 1-RM bench press performance and muscle pennation increased significantly in TE subjects compared with nonTE subjects (P < 0.05). There was also a trend toward longer fascicle lengths in the muscles of nonTE subjects. CONCLUSION: The results of the present study suggest that the use of TE in conjunction with heavy resistance training is associated with muscle architecture changes that are commonly associated with high-force production. Since there was little difference between the groups in muscle thickness, changes in pennation and possibly fascicle length may have contributed to strength gains seen in TE subjects.



Muscular strength, body composition and health responses to the use of testosterone enanthate: a double blind study.
To determine the effect the steroid, testosterone enanthate (TE) had on upper body strength, body composition and health. Twenty one male weight training subjects were randomly assigned in a double blind method to either a 3.5 mg(-1) x kg(-1) TE (n=11) or placebo (n=10) weight training group. The subjects were monitored during a 12 week administration phase and a subsequent 12 week follow up phase. Subjects were tested on a number of strength and size measurements, whilst having their health monitored. The results from the study revealed that the testosterone/weight training group improved significantly (p<0.05) more than the placebo/weight training group during and immediately after the administration phase on a 1 repetition maximum bench press. With regards to body composition, body weight, arm girth and rectus femoris circumference all increased significantly greater in the TE group compared to the placebo. Furthermore, the abdomen skinfold showed significant decreases in the TE group compared to the placebo group at post testing, follow up mid testing and the follow up post testing occasions. With the exception of the abdomen skinfold no within or between group differences were evident following a cycling off period of 12 weeks. Changes to baseline health indicators were reported in some subjects following testosterone usage. This included an average elevation in systolic blood pressure in all TE subjects by 10 mm Hg, a mild increase in hereditary frontal alopecia, increased muscle tightness (hamstrings and pectorals), a mild increase in libido over the first two weeks with a subsequent fall to normal, mild acne, subjective changes to personality including an increase in aggression, irritability and positive mood responses. Consequently, moderate doses of TE combined with weight training can result in short term significant changes in upper body strength and body composition, with corresponding changes to baseline health in some individuals.



Testosterone injection stimulates net protein synthesis but not tissue amino acid transport.
Testosterone administration (T) increases lean body mass and muscle protein synthesis. We investigated the effects of short-term T on leg muscle protein kinetics and transport of selected amino acids by use of a model based on arteriovenous sampling and muscle biopsy. Fractional synthesis (FSR) and breakdown (FBR) rates of skeletal muscle protein were also directly calculated. Seven healthy men were studied before and 5 days after intramuscular injection of 200 mg of testosterone enanthate. Protein synthesis increased twofold after injection (P < 0.05), whereas protein breakdown was unchanged. FSR and FBR calculations were in accordance, because FSR increased twofold (P < 0.05) without a concomitant change in FBR. Net balance between synthesis and breakdown became more positive with both methodologies (P < 0.05) and was not different from zero. T injection increased arteriovenous essential and nonessential nitrogen balance across the leg (P < 0.05) in the fasted state, without increasing amino acid transport. Thus T administration leads to an increased net protein synthesis and reutilization of intracellular amino acids in skeletal muscle.



Testosterone treatment in adolescents with delayed puberty: changes in body composition, protein, fat, and glucose metabolism.
Previously, we demonstrated decreased protein breakdown and insulin resistance in pubertal adolescents compared with prepubertal children. Puberty-related increases in coïtus steroids and/or GH could be potentially responsible. In the present study, the effects of 4 months of testosterone enanthate (50 mg in every 2 weeks) on body composition, protein, fat, and glucose metabolism and insulin sensitivity were evaluated in adolescents with delayed puberty.
After 4 months of testosterone treatment, height, weight, and fat free mass (FFM) increased and fat mass, percent body fat, plasma cholesterol, high- and low-density lipoproteins, and leptin levels decreased significantly. Whole-body proteolysis and protein oxidation were lower after testosterone treatment (proteolysis, 0.49 +/- 0.03 vs 0.54 +/- 0.04 g.h.kg FFM, P = 0.032; oxidation, 0.05 +/- 0.01 vs. 0.09 +/- 0.01 g.h.kg FFM, P = 0.015). Protein synthesis was not different, and resting energy expenditure was not different. Total body lipolysis was not affected by testosterone treatment, however, fat oxidation was higher after testosterone (pre-: 2.4 +/- 0.7 vs. post-: 3.5 +/- 0.7 mumol.kg.min, P = 0.031). During the 40 mU.m2.min hyperinsulinemia, insulin sensitivity of glucose metabolism was not affected with testosterone therapy (59.1 +/- 8.8 vs. 57.1 +/- 8.2 mumol.kg.min per muU/mL). However, metabolic clearance rate of insulin was higher posttestosterone (13.6 +/- 1.1 vs. 16.7 +/- 0.8 mL.kg.min, P = 0.004). In conclusion, after 4 months of low-dose testosterone treatment in adolescents with delayed puberty 1) FFM increases and fat mass and leptin levels decrease; 2) postabsorptive proteolysis and protein oxidation decrease; 3) fat oxidation increases; and 4) insulin sensitivity in glucose metabolism does not change, whereas insulin clearance increases. These longitudinal observations are in agreement with our previous cross-sectional studies of puberty and demonstrate sparing of protein breakdown of approximately 1.2 g.kg.day FFM, wasting of fat mass, but no change in insulin sensitivity after short periods of low-dose testosterone supplementation.



Testosterone dose-dependently increases maximal voluntary strength and leg power, but does not affect fatigability or specific tension.
To examine the relationship between testosterone dose and muscle performance, 61 healthy, eugonadal young men (aged 18-35 yr) were randomized to 1 of 5 groups, each receiving a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production plus weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate for 20 wk. These doses produced mean nadir testosterone concentrations of 253, 306, 542, 1345, and 2370 ng/dl, respectively. Maximal voluntary muscle strength and fatigability were determined by a seated leg press exercise. Leg power was measured using a validated leg power instrument. Specific tension was estimated by the ratio of one repetition maximum muscle strength to thigh muscle volume determined by magnetic resonance imaging. Testosterone administration was associated with a dose-dependent increase in leg press strength and leg power, but muscle fatigability did not change significantly during treatment. Changes in leg press strength were significantly correlated with total (r = 0.46; P = 0.0005) and free (r = 0.38; P = 0.006) testosterone as was leg power (total testosterone: r = 0.38; P = 0.007; free testosterone: r = 0.35; P = 0.015), but not muscle fatigability. Serum IGF-I concentrations were not significantly correlated with leg strength, power, or fatigability. Specific tension did not change significantly at any dose. We conclude that the effects of testosterone on muscle performance are specific; it increases maximal voluntary strength and leg power, but does not affect fatigability or specific tension. The changes in leg strength and power are dependent on testosterone dose and circulating testosterone concentrations and exhibit a log-linear relationship with serum total and free testosterone. Failure to observe a significant testosterone dose relationship with fatigability suggests that testosterone does not affect this component of muscle performance and that different components of muscle performance are regulated by different mechanisms.



Dose-dependent effects of testosterone on regional adipose tissue distribution in healthy young men.
Testosterone supplementation reduces total body adipose tissue (AT), but we do not know whether the effects are uniformly distributed throughout the body or are region specific, or whether they are dose related. We determined the effects of graded doses of testosterone on regional AT distribution in 54 healthy men (18-35 yr) in a 20-wk, randomized, double-blind study of combined treatment with GnRH agonist plus one of five doses (25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg/wk) of testosterone enanthate (TE). Total body, appendicular, and trunk AT and lean body mass were measured by dual-energy x-ray absorptiometry, and sc, intermuscular, and intraabdominal AT of the thigh and abdomen were measured by magnetic resonance imaging. Treatment regimens resulted in serum nadir testosterone concentrations ranging from subphysiological to supraphysiological levels. Dose-dependent changes in AT mass were negatively correlated with TE dose at all sites and were equally distributed between the trunk and appendices. The lowest dose was associated with gains in sc, intermuscular, and intraabdominal AT, with the greatest percent increase occurring in the sc stores. At the three highest TE doses, thigh intermuscular AT volume was significantly reduced, with a greater percent loss in intermuscular than sc depots, whereas intraabdominal AT stores remained unchanged. In conclusion, changes in testosterone concentrations in young men are associated with dose-dependent and region-specific changes in AT and lean body mass in the appendices and trunk. Lowering testosterone concentrations below baseline increases sc and deep AT stores in the appendices and abdomen, with a greater percent increase in sc depots. Conversely, elevating testosterone concentrations above baseline induces a greater loss of AT from the smaller, deeper intermuscular stores of the thigh.



Effects of GH and/or coïtus steroid administration on abdominal subcutaneous and visceral fat in healthy aged women and men.
Aging is associated with reduced GH, IGF-I, and coïtus steroid axis activity and with increased abdominal fat. We employed a randomized, double-masked, placebo-controlled, noncross-over design to study the effects of 6 months of administration of GH alone (20 microg/kg BW), coïtus hormone alone (hormone replacement therapy in women, testosterone enanthate in men), or GH + coïtus hormone on total abdominal area, abdominal sc fat, and visceral fat in 110 healthy women (n = 46) and men (n = 64), 65-88 yr old (mean, 72 yr). GH administration increased IGF-I levels in women (P = 0.05) and men (P = 0.0001), with the increment in IGF-I levels being higher in men (P = 0.05). Sex steroid administration increased levels of estrogen and testosterone in women and men, respectively (P = 0.05). In women, neither GH, hormone replacement therapy, nor GH + hormone replacement therapy altered total abdominal area, sc fat, or visceral fat significantly. In contrast, in men, administration of GH and GH + testosterone enanthate decreased total abdominal area by 3.9% and 3.8%, respectively, within group and vs. placebo (P = 0.05). Within-group comparisons revealed that sc fat decreased by 10% (P = 0.01) after GH, and by 14% (P = 0.0005) after GH + testosterone enanthate. Compared with placebo, sc fat decreased by 14% (P = 0.05) after GH, by 7% (P = 0.05) after testosterone enanthate, and by 16% (P = 0.0005) after GH + testosterone enanthate. Compared with placebo, visceral fat did not decrease significantly after administration of GH, testosterone enanthate, or GH + testosterone enanthate. These data suggest that in healthy older individuals, GH and/or coïtus hormone administration elicits a coïtusually dimorphic response on sc abdominal fat. The generally proportionate reductions we observed in sc and visceral fat, after 6 months of GH administration in healthy aged men, contrast with the disproportionate reduction of visceral fat reported after a similar period of GH treatment of nonelderly GH deficient men and women. Whether longer term administration of GH or testosterone enanthate, alone or in combination, will reduce abdominal fat distribution-related cardiovascular risk in healthy older men remains to be elucidated.



The effects of supraphysiological doses of testosterone on angry behavior in healthy eugonadal men--a clinical research center study.
Anecdotal reports of "roid rage" and violent crimes by androgenic steroid users have brought attention to the relationship between anabolic steroid use and angry outbursts. However, testosterone effects on human aggression remain controversial. Previous studies have been criticized because of the low androgen doses, lack of placebo control or blinding, and inclusion of competitive athletes and those with preexisting psychopathology. To overcome these pitfalls, we used a double-blind, placebo-controlled design, excluded competitive athletes and those with psychiatric disorders, and used 600 mg testosterone enanthate (TE)/week. Forty-three eugonadal men, 19-40 yr, were randomized to 1 of 4 groups: Group I, placebo, no exercise; Group II, TE, no exercise; Group III, placebo, exercise; Group IV, TE plus exercise. Exercise consisted of thrice weekly strength training sessions. The Multi-Dimensional Anger Inventory (MAI), which includes 5 different dimensions of anger (inward anger, outward anger, anger arousal, hostile outlook, and anger eliciting situations), and a Mood Inventory (MI), which includes items related to mood and behavior, were administered to subjects before, during, and after the 10 week intervention. The subject's significant other (spouse, live-in partner, or parent) also answered the same questions about the subject's mood and behavior (Observer Mood Inventory, OMI). No differences were observed between exercising and nonexercising and between placebo and TE treated subjects for any of the 5 subdomains of MAI. Overall there were no significant changes in MI or OMI during the treatment period in any group. Conclusion: Supraphysiological doses of testosterone, when administered to normal men in a controlled setting, do not increase angry behavior. These data do not exclude the possibility that still higher doses of multiple steroids might provoke angry behavior in men with preexisting psychopathology.



Effect of testosterone administration on coïtusual behavior and mood in men with erectile dysfunction.
This double-blind placebo controlled, cross-over study was carried out to assess the effect of testosterone administration on coïtusual behavior mood, and psychological symptoms in healthy men with erectile dysfunction. Biweekly injections of 200 mg of testosterone enanthate were given over a period of 6 weeks separated by a washout period of 4 weeks. Blood samples for hormonal assessment, behavioral and psychological ratings were obtained prior to each injection. Luteinizing hormone remained significantly depressed but circulating testosterone had returned to baseline levels by 2 weeks following each hormonal injection. The ejaculatory frequency during the testosterone phase was statistically higher than during the placebo phase. There were marked, although statistically nonsignificant, increases in median frequency of reported coïtusual desire, masturbation, coïtusual experiences with partner, and sleep erections during the testosterone period. Testosterone did not have demonstrable effects on ratings of penile rigidity and coïtusual satisfaction. Mood variables and psychological symptoms did not change following hormonal administration. Results suggest that androgen administration to eugonadal men with erectile dysfunction may activate their coïtusual behavior without enhancing erectile capacity and without effects on mood and psychological symptoms.



Testosterone replacement therapy for hypogonadal men with major depressive disorder: a randomized, placebo-controlled clinical trial.
METHOD: A 6-week double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trial was conducted in 32 men with DSM-IV MDD and a low testosterone level, defined as total serum testosterone < or = 350 ng/dL. Patients were randomly assigned to receive weekly 1-mL intramuscular injections of either testosterone enanthate, 200 mg, or sesame seed oil (placebo). The primary outcome measure was the 24-item Hamilton Rating Scale for Depression (HAM-D). RESULTS: Thirty patients were randomly assigned to an intervention; 13 received testosterone, and 17 received placebo. Mean +/- SD age was 52+/-10 years, mean testosterone level was 266.1+/-50.6 ng/dL, and mean baseline HAM-D score was 21+/-8. All patients who received testosterone achieved normalization of their testosterone levels. The HAM-D scores decreased in both testosterone and placebo groups, and there were no significant between-group differences: reduction in group mean HAM-D score from baseline to endpoint was 10.1 in patients who received testosterone and 10.5 in those who received placebo. Response rate, defined as a 50% or greater reduction in HAM-D score, was 38.5% (5/13) for patients who received testosterone and 41.2% (7/17) for patients who received placebo. Patients receiving testosterone had a marginal but statistically significant improvement in coïtusual function (p = .02). CONCLUSION: In this clinical trial with depressed, hypogonadal men, antidepressant effects of testosterone replacement could not be differentiated from those of placebo.



Testosterone supplementation: what and how to give.
Several epidemiological studies have demonstrated a gradual decrease of serum testosterone with aging in men. A considerable number of men will experience hypogonadal androgen levels, defined by the normal range for young men. Thus, in addition to the long-standing use of androgen replacement therapy in the classical forms of primary and secondary hypogonadism, age-associated testosterone deficiency has led to considerable developments in application modes for testosterone. Since oral preparations of testosterone are ineffective, due to the first-pass effect of the liver, or, in case of 17 alpha-alkylation, cause hepatotoxicity, intramuscular injection of long-acting esters, such as testosterone enanthate, have been the mainstay of testosterone therapy. However, the large fluctuations of serum testosterone levels cause unsatisfactory shifts of mood and coïtusual function in some men; combined with the frequent injections, this delivery mode is thus far from being ideal. In contrast, the transdermal testosterone patches are characterized by favorable pharmacokinetic behavior and have proven to be an effective mode of delivery. Safety data over 10 years indicate no negative effect on the prostate. Nevertheless, the scrotal testosterone patch system is hampered by the application site, which is not easily accepted by many subjects; the non-scrotal patch has a high rate of skin irritations. In view of the drawbacks of the currently available preparations, the most recent developments in testosterone supplementation appear to be highly promising agents. Androgen, which has been available in the United States since mid-2000, will be introduced this year in most European markets as Testogel, a hydroalcoholic gel containing 1% testosterone. Doses of 50-100 mg gel applied once daily on the skin deliver sufficient amounts of testosterone to restore normal hormonal values and to correct the signs and symptoms of hypogonadism. The gel has shown to be very effective and successful in American patients, who have benefited from its availability for almost 3 years. Furthermore, in phase II and III clinical studies, the intramuscular injection of 1000 mg testosterone undecanoate every 12-15 weeks has led to extremely stable serum testosterone levels for a prolonged period of time and has resulted in excellent efficacy. It is very likely in the future that these products will be the mainstay of testosterone supplementation. Whereas the indication for testosterone substitution for men with classical forms of hypogonadism is unequivocal, the use of testosterone in men with age-associated hypogonadism is less uniformly accepted. Yet, the few studies addressing this question indicate that men with testosterone serum levels below the lower normal limit for young adult men and with lack of energy, libido, depressed mood and osteoporosis may benefit from testosterone supplementation. However, it should be kept in mind that the experience documented in studies is limited. Nevertheless, serious side-effects, especially in regard to the prostate, did not occur, with the longest study extending over 3 years.



The effect of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone on fasting total homocysteine levels in normal men.
Elevated total homocysteine (tHcy) levels are associated with increased risk for atherosclerotic cardiovascular disease. tHcy levels are higher in men than in women, and estrogen replacement therapy may reduce tHcy levels in postmenopausal women. The effect of androgenic hormones on tHcy levels in men has not been examined. The present study determined the effect of supraphysiologic doses of testosterone, with or without its aromatization to estradiol, on fasting tHcy levels in 14 normal male weightlifters aged 19-42 years. Subjects received testosterone-enanthate (200 mg/week intramuscularly), the aromatase inhibitor, testolactone (1 g/day orally), or both drugs together in a crossover design. Each treatment lasted 3 weeks and each treatment was separated by a 4-week washout. Both testosterone regimens increased serum testosterone levels, whereas estradiol increased only during testosterone alone. Mean tHcy levels were not significantly altered when testosterone was given alone or together with testolactone. Testolactone did not significantly influence tHcy levels. We conclude that short-term, high-dose testosterone administration does not affect fasting tHcy levels in normal men.



Influence of various modes of androgen substitution on serum lipids and lipoproteins in hypogonadal men.
We investigated whether the androgen type or application mode or testosterone (T) serum levels influence serum lipids and lipoprotein levels differentially in 55 hypogonadal men randomly assigned to the following treatment groups: mesterolone 100 mg orally daily ([MES] n = 12), testosterone undecanoate 160 mg orally daily ([TU] n = 13), testosterone enanthate 250 mg intramuscularly every 21 days ([TE] n = 15), or a single subcutaneous implantation of crystalline T 1,200 mg ([TPEL] n = 15). The dosages were based on standard treatment regimens. Previous androgen substitution was suspended for at least 3 months. Only metabolically healthy men with serum T less than 3.6 nmol/L and total cholesterol (TC) and triglyceride (TG) less than 200 mg/dL were included. After a screening period of 2 weeks, the study medication was taken from days 0 to 189, with follow-up visits on days 246 and 300. Before substitution, all men were clearly hypogonadal, with mean serum T less than 3 nmol/L in all groups. Androgen substitution led to no significant increase of serum T in the MES group, subnormal T in the TU group (5.7 +/- 0.3 nmol/L), normal T in the TE group (13.5 +/- 0.7 nmol/L), and high-normal T in the TPEL group (23.2 +/- 1.1 nmol/L). 5 alpha-Dihydrotestosterone significantly increased in all treatment groups compared with baseline. Compared with presubstitution levels, a significant increase of TC was observed in all treatment groups (TU, 14.4% +/- 3.0%; MES, 18.8% +/- 2.5%; TE, 20.4% +/- 3.0%; TPEL, 20.2% +/- 2.6%). Low-density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C) also increased significantly by 34.3% +/- 5.5% (TU), 46.4% +/- 4.1% (MES), 65.2% +/- 5.7% (TE), and 47.5% +/- 4.3% (TPEL). High-density lipoprotein cholesterol (HDL-C) showed a significant decrease by -30.9% +/- 2.8% (TU), -34.9% +/- 2.5% (MES), -35.7% +/- 2.6% (TE), and -32.5% +/- 3.5% (TPEL). Serum TG significantly increased by 37.3% +/- 11.3% (TU), 46.4% +/- 10.3% (MES), 29.4% +/- 6.5% (TE), and 22.9% +/- 6.7% (TPEL). TU caused a smaller increase of TC than TE and TPEL, whereas the parenteral treatment modes showed a lower increase of TG. There was no correlation between serum T and lipid concentrations. Despite the return of serum T to pretreatment levels, serum lipid and lipoprotein levels did not return to baseline during follow-up evaluation. In summary, androgen substitution in hypogonadal men increases TC, LDL-C, and TG and decreases HDL-C independently of the androgen type and application made and the serum androgen levels achieved. Due to the extended washout period for previous androgen medication and the exclusion of men with preexisting hyperlipidemia, this investigation demonstrates more clearly than previous studies the impact of androgen effects on serum lipids and lipoproteins. It is concluded that preexisting low serum androgens induce a "male-type" serum lipid profile, and increasing serum androgens further within the male normal range does not exert any additional effects. The threshold appears to be above the normal female androgen serum levels and far below the lower limit of normal serum T levels in adult men. These findings may have considerable implications for the use of androgens as a male contraceptive and for androgen therapy in elderly men.



Effects of testosterone replacement on HDL subfractions and apolipoprotein A-I containing lipoproteins.
Eleven Chinese hypogonadal men were started on testosterone enanthate 250 mg intramuscularly at 4-weekly intervals. HDL was subfractionated by density gradient ultracentrifugation and LpA-I was analysed by electro-immunodiffusion after 3, 6 and 12 weeks of treatment. Plasma cholesteryl ester transfer protein (CETP) activity and lipolytic enzymes activities in post-heparin plasma were measured to determine the mechanisms underlying testosterone-induced changes in HDL. RESULTS: The dosage of testosterone enanthate used in the present study resulted in suboptimal trough testosterone levels. No changes were seen in plasma total cholesterol, triglyceride, low density lipoprotein cholesterol (LDL-C,) apo B and apo(a) after 12 weeks. There was a drop in HDL3-C compared to baseline (0.82 +/- 0.17 mmol/l vs. 0.93 +/- 0.13, P < 0.01) whereas a small but significant increase was seen in HDL2-C (0.21 +/- 0.13 mmol/l vs. 0.11 +/- 0.09, P < 0.05). Plasma apo A-I decreased after treatment (1.34 +/- 0.25 g/l vs. 1.50 +/- 0.29, P < 0.01), due to a reduction in LpA-I:A-II particles (0.86 +/- 0.18 g/l vs. 0.99 +/- 0.24, P < 0.01). No changes were observed in the levels of LpA-I particles. No significant changes were seen in plasma CETP and lipoprotein lipase activities after testosterone replacement but there was a transient increase in hepatic lipase (HL) activity at weeks 3 and 6. The decrease in HDL correlated with the increase in HL activity (r = 0.62, P < 0.05). CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone replacement in the form of parenteral testosterone ester given 4-weekly, although unphysiological, was not associated with unfavourable changes in lipid profiles. The reduction in HDL was mainly in HDL3-C and in LpA-I:A-II particles and not in the more anti-atherogenic HDL2 and LpA-I particles. The changes in HDL subclasses were mainly mediated through the effect of testosterone on hepatic lipase activity.



Outcomes of long-term testosterone replacement in older hypogonadal males: a retrospective analysis.
To determine the complications, toxicities, and compliance of long term testosterone replacement in hypogonadal males, we retrospectively assessed 45 elderly hypogonadal men receiving testosterone replacement therapy and 27 hypogonadal men taking testosterone. Hypogonadism was defined as a bioavailable testosterone serum concentration of 72 ng/dL or less. Both groups received baseline physical examinations and blood tests. The testosterone-treated group received 200 mg testosterone enanthate or cypionate im every 2 weeks, and follow-up examinations and blood samplings were performed every 3 months. The control group had a single follow-up blood test and physical examination. There was no significant difference in the initial blood tests in the two groups. At 2 yr follow-up, only the hematocrit showed a statistically significant increase in the testosterone-treated group compared to the control group (P < 0.001). A decrease in the urea nitrogen to creatinine ratio and an increase in the prostate-specific antigen concentration was not statistically significant. Eleven (24%) of the testosterone-treated subjects developed polycythemia sufficient to require phlebotomy or the temporary withholding of testosterone, one third of which occurred less than 1 yr after starting testosterone treatment. There was no significant difference in the incidence of new illness in the two groups during the 2-yr follow-up. Although self-assessment of libido was dramatically improved in the testosterone-treated group (P < 0.0001), approximately one third of the subjects discontinued therapy. In conclusion, testosterone replacement therapy appears to be well tolerated by over 84% of the subjects. Long term testosterone replacement to date appears to be a safe and effective means of treating hypogonadal elderly males, provided that frequent follow-up blood tests and examinations are performed.



Oligozoospermia induced by exogenous testosterone is associated with normal functioning residual spermatozoa.
PATIENT(S): Twelve healthy men were studied while participating in a multicenter T enanthate contraceptive efficacy study. Data were analyzed from only eight subjects, whose sperm concentrations were between 1.3 and 10 x 10(6)/mL at the suppression phase. INTERVENTION(S): Testosterone enanthate (200 mg) was administered IM weekly during the suppression and treatment (efficacy) phases (total 15 months). MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S): Sperm function tests (stimulated acrosome reaction, sperm hyperactivation [HA], and zona-free hamster oocyte penetration tests) were performed during the pretreatment, suppression (usually after 6 to 10 weeks of treatment, when sperm concentration was anticipated to decrease to < 10 x 10(6)/mL), and recovery phases. Studies were not done during the contraceptive efficacy phase because only one of the subjects was not azoospermic. RESULT(S): Mean sperm concentration was reduced but sperm motility, motility characteristics, and morphology were not affected by T enanthate treatment. The residual spermatozoa in the ejaculate could acrosome react, exhibited normal HA, and maintained the capacity to penetrate and fuse with the oocyte. CONCLUSION(S): Suppression of spermatogenesis to moderate oligozoospermia (< 10 x 10(6)/mL) with exogenous T enanthate administration was not associated with impaired sperm function of the residual spermatozoa. The study did not exclude the possibility that disorders of sperm function might occur when spermatogenesis is suppressed further to very severe oligozoospermia (< 1 x 10(6)/mL), commonly observed in hormonal male contraceptive clinical trials.



Changes in structure and functions of prostate by long-term administration of an androgen, testosterone enanthate, in rhesus monkey (Macaca mulatta).
The present study is the first report that critically evaluates the effects of long-term use of TE on prostate structure and functions. Adult male rhesus monkeys received intramuscular injections of 50 mg of TE once in 14 days for 33 months. The cranial and caudal lobes of the prostate, which were removed under ketamine anesthesia, were processed for the preparation of semithin sections to evaluate histological changes. The DNA distribution in the cells was studied in single cell suspensions of cranial and caudal lobes of the prostate by using flow cytometry. Changes in the levels of testosterone, estradiol, prostate-specific acid phosphatase (PAP), and prostate-specific antigen (PSA) in samples collected during the pretreatment period and at the time of removal of the prostate were estimated by using conventional procedures. Control samples were processed simultaneously. The administration of TE for 33 months caused the following changes: 1) significant increase in the weight of both lobes of the prostate, 2) cellular hypertrophy and increase in secretory material in the cells and in the lumen of the acini in the central and peripheral zones of the two lobes of the prostate, 3) cellular hyperplasia indicated by flow cytometric analysis of DNA content, 4) significant increase in the secretion of PAP and levels of estradiol, and 5) a marked increase in fibromuscular stroma in the central and peripheral zones of both the lobes of the prostate. The present study is the first report to provide evidence that long-term androgen treatment has caused hypertrophy of the prostatic epithelial cells, which showed increased secretory activity. The hyperplastic changes indicate a need for the development of new androgens with a better pharmacokinetic profile for use in male contraceptive regimens.

Langur prostate and its hormonal modulation.
Various prostatic parameters in normal and under altered hormonal conditions suggest that the langur prostate is similar to the human and therefore could be used as surrogate for the human prostate.



Older men are as responsive as young men to the anabolic effects of graded doses of testosterone on the skeletal muscle.
The participants in this randomized, double-blind trial were 60 ambulatory, healthy, older men, 60-75 yr of age, who had normal serum testosterone levels. Their responses to graded doses of testosterone were compared with previous data in 61 men, 19-35 yr old. The participants received a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production and 25, 50, 125, 300, or 600 mg testosterone enanthate weekly for 20 wk. Fat-free mass, fat mass, muscle strength, coïtusual function, mood, visuospatial cognition, hormone levels, and safety measures were evaluated before, during, and after treatment. Of 60 older men who were randomized, 52 completed the study. After adjusting for testosterone dose, changes in serum total testosterone (change, -6.8, -1.9, +16.1, +49.5, and +101.9 nmol/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) and hemoglobin (change, -3.6, +9.9, +20.9, +12.6, and +29.4 g/liter at 25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg/wk, respectively) levels were dose-related in older men and significantly greater in older men than young men (each P < 0.0001). The changes in FFM (-0.3, +1.7, +4.2, +5.6, and +7.3 kg, respectively, in five ascending dose groups) and muscle strength in older men were correlated with testosterone dose and concentrations and were not significantly different in young and older men. Changes in fat mass correlated inversely with testosterone dose (r = -0.54; P < 0.001) and were significantly different in young vs. older men (P < 0.0001); young men receiving 25- and 50-mg doses gained more fat mass than older men (P < 0.0001). Mood and visuospatial cognition did not change significantly in either group. Frequency of hematocrit greater than 54%, leg edema, and prostate events were numerically higher in older men than in young men. Older men are as responsive as young men to testosterone's anabolic effects; however, older men have lower testosterone clearance rates, higher increments in hemoglobin, and a higher frequency of adverse effects. Although substantial gains in muscle mass and strength can be realized in older men with supraphysiological testosterone doses, these high doses are associated with a high frequency of adverse effects. The best trade-off was achieved with a testosterone dose (125 mg) that was associated with high normal testosterone levels, low frequency of adverse events, and significant gains in fat-free mass and muscle strength.



Effects of muscle strength training and testosterone in frail elderly males.
PURPOSE: Determine the independent and combined effects of progressive resistance muscle strength training (PRMST) and testosterone on strength, muscle mass, and function in hypogonadal elderly male recuperative care patients. METHODS: Between 1999 and 2004, 71 subjects (mean age 78.2 +/- 6.4 yr, 86% white) were enrolled. After baseline one-repetition maximum (1RM) strength testing and then randomization to one of four treatment groups (low-resistance (20% of the 1RM) exercises and weekly injections of either 100 mg of testosterone enanthate or placebo or high-intensity PRMST (> or =80% 1RM) and weekly injections), each subject received training and injections for 12 wk. RESULTS: Ten subjects withdrew from the study before its completion. Based on intent-to-treat analyses, strength improved in all groups, but was greater with high-intensity PRMST compared with low-resistance exercise (e.g., leg press, (mean +/- SE), 28 +/- 4 vs 13 +/- 4%, P = 0.009). Although testosterone led to significantly greater increases in midthigh cross-sectional muscle area compared with placebo (7.9 +/- 1.3 vs 2.4 +/- 1.4%, P = 0.005), it produced only a nonsignificant trend toward greater strength gains (e.g., leg press 25 +/- 4 vs 16 +/- 4%, P = 0.144). Change in aggregate functional performance score (the sum of 4 functional performance test scores) did not differ between the four intervention groups nor with high-intensity PRMST compared with low-resistance exercise (7 +/- 5 vs 15 +/- 5%, P = 0.263). There was not a significant interaction between exercise and testosterone for any outcome. CONCLUSION: High-intensity PRMST is as safe and well tolerated as a similarly structured low-resistance exercise regimen for very frail elderly patients, but produces greater muscle strength improvements. The addition of testosterone leads to greater muscle size and a trend toward greater strength but did not produce a synergistic interaction with exercise. Neither intervention had a significant effect on functional performance.



Testosterone improves rehabilitation outcomes in ill older men.
OBJECTIVES: To determine whether testosterone supplementation improves rehabilitation outcomes in ill older men. DESIGN: A randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind study. SETTING: A Geriatric Evaluation and Management (GEM) unit based at a university- affiliated Veterans Affairs Medical Center. PARTICIPANTS: Fifteen men aged 65 to 90 years admitted to the GEM for rehabilitation. INTERVENTION: Subjects were randomized to receive weekly intramuscular injections with testosterone enanthate 100 mg or placebo. MEASUREMENTS: Task-specific performance using the Functional Independence Measure (FIM) and grip strength was measured at the onset of the study and at the time of discharge from the GEM. RESULTS: At baseline, FIM scores were similar between the placebo and the testosterone group (73.7 vs 70.7, P = .637), as was grip strength (49.7 vs 55.3 pounds, P = .555). At discharge from the GEM, testosterone-treated patients had improved FIM scores compared with baseline (93.6 vs 70.7; P = .012) and grip strength (68.7 vs 55.3 pounds; P = .033). In the placebo group there was no significant improvement of FIM scores compared with baseline (78.0 versus 73.7; P = .686) or of grip strength (48.9 vs 49.7 pounds; P = .686). CONCLUSIONS: Testosterone supplementation may improve rehabilitation outcomes in ill older men.



[The influence of testosterone replacement therapy on well-being, bone mineral density and lipids in elderly men]
We investigated thirty men (mean +/- SD; age 61.1 +/- 5.6 yr) with testosterone concentrations (mean +/- SEM) 2.1 +/- 0.2 ng/ml. Testosterone deficiency was replacement by intramuscular injections of testosterone enanthate 200 mg every second week from 1.5 to 6 yr. (mean +/- SD; 3.35 +/- 1.6 yr.). During the treatment serum testosterone increased reaching normal levels (mean +/- SEM; 6.6 +/- 0.2 ng/ml). This was associated with significant increase in positive mood parameters and a decrease in negative mood parameters. Also self assessment of libido, potence and dream were improved. Bone mineral density (BMD) of lumbar spine increased. We noticed significant decrease in total cholesterol, and LDL-cholesterol. Hematocrit was increase Prostate-specific antigen concentration statistically increased from 0.65 +/- 0.1 to 1.35 +/- 0.1 ng/ml (mean +/- SEM), but in the cases of its levels were in normal range. Patients with coronary heart disease demonstrated decreasing ing symptoms of angina pectoris and nitrate requirement. In summary, long-term testosterone replacement therapy in elderly men may have beneficial effects on well-being, libido, potence, dream, bone mineral density, lipids, blood cell count and body mass (BMI). This therapy appears to be safe and there is no adverse effection on prostate.



Dose-dependent effects of testosterone on coïtusual function, mood, and visuospatial cognition in older men.
To elucidate testosterone dose-response relationships in older men, we examined the effects of graded testosterone doses on coïtusual function, mood, and visuospatial cognition in healthy, older men (age, 60-75 yr). SETTING: This study was performed at the General Clinical Research Center. INTERVENTION/METHODS: Subjects each received a long-acting GnRH agonist to suppress endogenous testosterone production and were randomized to receive one of five doses (25, 50, 125, 300, and 600 mg) of testosterone enanthate weekly for 20 wk. Questionnaires were used to evaluate coïtusual function. Scores for overall coïtusual function as well as subcomponents of coïtusual function (libido, coïtusual activity, and erectile function) were calculated. RESULTS: Changes in overall coïtusual function (P = 0.003) and waking erections (P = 0.024) differed by dose. An interaction between libido and being coïtusually active was observed, such that libido changed by testosterone dose only among men who reported being coïtusually active at the beginning of the study (P = 0.009). Men's log-transformed free testosterone levels during treatment were positively correlated with overall coïtusual function (P = 0.001), waking erections (P = 0.040), spontaneous erections (P = 0.047), and libido (P = 0.027), but not with intercourse frequency (P = 0.428 ) or masturbation frequency (P = 0.814). No effects of testosterone dose were observed on two measures of mood: Hamilton's Depression Inventory (P = 0.359) and Young's Mania Scale (P = 0.851). The number of trials completed on a computer-based test of visuospatial cognition differed by dose (P = 0.042), but the number of squares correctly completed on this task did not differ by dose (P = 0.159). CONCLUSIONS: Different aspects of male behavior respond differently to testosterone. When considered together with previous data from young men, these data indicate that testosterone dose-response relationships for coïtusual function and visuospatial cognition differ in older and young men.



Exogenous testosterone or testosterone with finasteride increases bone mineral density in older men with low serum testosterone.
Older men, particularly those with low serum testosterone (T) levels, might benefit from T therapy to improve bone mineral density (BMD) and reduce fracture risk. Concerns exist, however, about the impact of T therapy on the prostate in older men. We hypothesized that the combination of T and finasteride (F), a 5 alpha-reductase inhibitor, might increase BMD in older men without adverse effects on the prostate. Seventy men aged 65 yr or older, with a serum T less than 12.1 nmol/liter on two occasions, were randomly assigned to receive one of three regimens for 36 months: T enanthate, 200 mg im every 2 wk with placebo pills daily (T-only); T enanthate, 200 mg every 2 wk with 5 mg F daily (T+F); or placebo injections and pills (placebo). Low BMD was not an inclusion criterion. We obtained serial measurements of BMD of the lumbar spine and hip by dual x-ray absorptiometry. Prostate-specific antigen (PSA) and prostate size were measured at baseline and during treatment to assess the impact of therapy on the prostate. Fifty men completed the 36-month protocol. By an intent-to-treat analysis including all men for as long as they contributed data, T therapy for 36 months increased BMD in these men at the lumbar spine [10.2 +/- 1.4% (mean percentage increase from baseline +/- SEM; T-only) and 9.3 +/- 1.4% (T+F) vs. 1.3 +/- 1.4% for placebo (P < 0.001)] and in the hip [2.7 +/- 0.7% (T-only) and 2.2 +/- 0.7% (T+F) vs. -0.2 +/- 0.7% for placebo, (P < or = 0.02)]. Significant increases in BMD were seen also in the intertrochanteric and trochanteric regions of the hip. After 6 months of therapy, urinary deoxypyridinoline (a bone-resorption marker) decreased significantly compared with baseline in both the T-only and T+F groups (P < 0.001) but was not significantly reduced compared with the placebo group. Over 36 months, PSA increased significantly from baseline in the T-only group (P < 0.001). Prostate volume increased in all groups during the 36-month treatment period, but this increase was significantly less in the T+F group compared with both the T-only and placebo groups (P = 0.02). These results demonstrate that T therapy in older men with low serum T increases vertebral and hip BMD over 36 months, both when administered alone and when combined with F. This finding suggests that dihydrotestosterone is not essential for the beneficial effects of T on BMD in men. In addition, the concomitant administration of F with T appears to attenuate the impact of T therapy on prostate size and PSA and might reduce the chance of benign prostatic hypertrophy or other prostate-related complications in older men on T therapy. These findings have important implications for the prevention and treatment of osteoporosis in older men with low T levels.
 
RobertHosper zei:
hmm...ik heb gisteren een vial testo cypionaat gekocht:( geldt daar ook hetzelfde voor?qua werking verschilt het toch niet zo heel erg veel?

cypionaat heeft een iets zwaardere ester..dus mg voor mg ietsjes minder test dan enanthaat..verder zelfde bijwerkingen!!!
 
  • Topic Starter Topic Starter
  • #62
bigtony zei:
Ik dacht dat het einde van de discussie was ingeluid? Toch niet blijkbaar.

Al ga je op je kop staan: ik blijf mijn twijfels bij je aanpak hebben.
Even een voorbeeld uit een andere hoek:

Mijn aanpak is het systematisch nagaan van alle onderzoeken naar exogeen testosteron + alle onderzoeken naar testosteron enanthaat + testosteron cypionaat........
Wanneer het zo overduidelijk zou zijn dat exogeen test het coïtusuele gedrag zou beinvloeden zou dit toch in tenminste in een klein deel van het totaal aan onderzoeken moeten terugkomen.........

Ik hoef nog maar een klein aantal onderzoeken en de verhouding is momenteel 10 tegen 1 (die ene is ook nog eens een keer een niet placebo gecontrolleerd onderzoek waarbij men wist dat men test kreeg).

Verder zijn adviezen van artsen op internet dat exogeen test seksueelgedrag niet beinvloedt. Er is een meta-analyse die ik net vond die hetzelfde uitwees + de "endocinology of coïtusual arousal" komt ook met dezelfde conclusie........

Met andere woorden: zowel pubmed als alle andere bronnen komen zonder uitzondering tot dezelfde conclusie!!!

bigtony zei:
In de VS circuleerden enige tijd geleden enorm hoge verkrachtingscijfers in navolging op een artikel van ene M. Koss. Uit haar onderzoek kwam naar voren dat een op de vier Amerikaanse vrouwen ooit is verkracht. (aan de hand van dit onderzoek zijn zelfs wetsontwerpen gemaakt.)

Gelukkig bleek na een kritische analyse (van een onderzoeksbureau) de terminologie en berekening niet helemaal te kloppen....

Ze had bijvoorbeeld een slippertje onder invloed van alcohol ook tot de categorie 'verkrachting' gerekend. (een vrouw onder invloed was volgens de onderzoekster niet geheel "wilsbekwaam"). Het onderzoek vond echter wel zijn weg naar academische publicaties, overheidsrapporten etc..

En dat bedoel ik nou. Zulke dwalingen zijn echt niet in een abstract te lezen. Naar de werkelijke toedracht hebben ze moeten zoeken en speuren in de enquetes en data-analyses.

Dit krijg je dus als je mensen alleen aan laat rommelen. Voor zover ik weet zit jij niet een bedding van collega's die jou enigszins bij kunnen sturen.

Er is helemaal niemand die mij hierin hoeft te steunen. Er is namelijk helemaal geen discussie over. Er zijn alleen bodybuilders die er van overtuigd zijn dat het anders werkt.

Ik neem aan dat je naar de criteria hebt gekeken die werden gebruikt om te kijken naar de veranderingen in seksueelgedrad. O.a. de partners van de gebruikers moesten ook een compleet logboek bijhouden.......

bigtony zei:
Het gevaar bestaat dat je een verkokerd beeld gaat krijgen op een probleeem dat bestaat uit enorm veel dimensies. (En geloof maar: coïtusualiteit / agressie (kortom menselijke gedragingen) zijn van enorm veel factoren afhankelijk.)

En over test gaat het allemaal nog wel. Maar als je dadelijk ook over kanker dergelijke absolute en stellige statements gaat lopen maken, vind ik dat onverantwoordelijk!!

Ik maak helemaal geen statements. Ik ga systematisch de hele shit na en kijk welke statements de desbetreffende onderzoekers maken. Ik verzamel die informatie. Is een gemakkelijk optelsommetje. Wanneer onderzoekers 20 x zeggen dat iets wel werkt en 2 x dat iets niet werkt, staat er in mijn stukje precies hetzelfde: Er zijn 20 onderzoeken naar supplement x die concluderen dat het positief werkt op deze variabele, en 2 onderzoeken die aantonen dat het niet werkt (of een negatieve invloed heeft).

bigtony zei:
Je kunt altijd wel met een onderzoekje gaan lopen zwaaien, maar het
"boerenkoolverstand" moet je toch echt niet gaan verliezen.

Ik ga dus echt alles na. De uitdaging die ik hierboven stelde aan jullie om zelf eens een google op dit onderwerp te doen, is niet voor niks: Artsen en experts, zelfs de endocrinology of coïtusual arousal komen tot dezelfde conclusie die ik heb getrokken aan de hand van mijn eigen searches.

bigtony zei:
Nogmaals. Niet persoonlijk, maar dat weet je wel; kijk gewoon een beetje uit en maak je stellingen zeker niet zo absoluut!

Dit was mijn laatste post bij dit onderwerp:rolleyes:

Mijn stellingen moet ik niet te snel absoluut maken inderdaad. Dat advies zal ik zeker mee nemen in mijn volgende posts. Die fout heb ik in het verleden inderdaad wel eens gemaakt. In mijn laatse draadjes (vit C en groene thee) was ik al veel kritischer. Mijn draadjes zijn meestal ook bedoeld als zijnde informatief, en om van daaruit verder te werken. Tegenwoordig stel ik wel steeds hogere eisen aan mijn eigen searches.

Er is ook 1 onderzoek naar chronische BBers en hun gedrag. Het totale gedrag van de BBers veranderde behoorlijk onder invloed van AAS gebruik, terwijl ook dit nooit is teruggevonden in recreatieve bodybuilders en "normale" mensen.

De conclusie van de wetenschappers was dat de mentale staat van bodybuilders niet te vergelijken is met die van andere mensen..........

Dit is dus zeer wel een mogelijkheid: Wij bodybuilders zijn gewoon compleet gestoord :p :D (Wist ik toch allang :D )

De uitdaging die ik hierboven stelde: "Doe zelf eens een google search" is ook niet bedoeld om jullie eigen bevindingen in twijfel te trekken" Wanneer je geil wordt is dit gewoon een echt gevoel.

Het gaat mij er om dat wanneer je je eigen searches doet, je soms interessantere dingen tegenkomt dan je verwacht. Jammer dat niets soms meer mensen dit doen. Met mijn "uitdaging" wil ik mensen prikkelen om zelfstandig en kritisch eigenhandig na te gaan of wat ze geloven wel ergens op is gebaseerd. (Op andere boards wordt ik hierom geflamed :( )

Tot morgen!!!!!!! :D
 
Tsja ik kan alleen maar mijn eigen gebruikerservaringen vertellen ;
wk 1 t/m 10: 500 mg test enantaat
wk 8 t/m 12: 50 mg winny tabs per dag
wk 13 + 14: 40 mg nolva per dag
wk 15 + 16: 20 mg nolva per dag

Eerste vier weken eigenlijk geen verschil merkbaar in kracht/geilheid/stemming
Week vijf begon de krachttoename en coïtus-drift waarbij ik dus echt elk persoon van het andere geslacht als een potentieel slachtoffer zag;)
Op mijn werk kan ik echt niet normaal doen of denken zonder er een seksueelgetinte opmerking bij zit. Kortom ik ben een beetje losgeslagen en zou eigenlijk opgesloten moeten worden:)

Als dit dus het zogenaamde placebo effect zou moeten zijn waarom is dit niet eerder gebeurt?

Ook mijn gedrag is niet meer zoals voorheen;)
http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/anabole-steroiden/roid-rage-50299.html?highlight=roid+rage
 
marz01 zei:
Tsja ik kan alleen maar mijn eigen gebruikerservaringen vertellen ;
wk 1 t/m 10: 500 mg test enantaat
wk 8 t/m 12: 50 mg winny tabs per dag
wk 13 + 14: 40 mg nolva per dag
wk 15 + 16: 20 mg nolva per dag

Eerste vier weken eigenlijk geen verschil merkbaar in kracht/geilheid/stemming
Week vijf begon de krachttoename en coïtus-drift waarbij ik dus echt elk persoon van het andere geslacht als een potentieel slachtoffer zag;)
Op mijn werk kan ik echt niet normaal doen of denken zonder er een seksueelgetinte opmerking bij zit. Kortom ik ben een beetje losgeslagen en zou eigenlijk opgesloten moeten worden:)

Als dit dus het zogenaamde placebo effect zou moeten zijn waarom is dit niet eerder gebeurt?

Ook mijn gedrag is niet meer zoals voorheen;)
http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/anabole-steroiden/roid-rage-50299.html?highlight=roid+rage

OK, nog 1 post dan hiero.

Ik heb dat dus ook. De eerste twee weken nog niet zo gek veel. (ik heb zelfs iemand een pm'etje gestuurd om te vragen of het aan de a'dex zou kunnen liggen dat ik niet geil werd). Want dit zag ik als referentiepunt voor goeie test aangezien ik dat eerder had meegemaakt.

En na twee weken gebeurde het dan: Gewoon NIET normaal.... En mijn vriendin kan er over meepraten. D'r heupen, d'r taille, d'r kont, alsof ik het voor de eeste keer zag!!

Ik zeg je: HELEMAAL wild, en erg lekker!!! Het is niet een beetje geiler; ik heb het over termen dat ik moet uitkijken dat ik niet alles wat enigszins rond en bol is bespring!!

Tja, daarom vind ik de resultaten zo raar....:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
Even ter vervolledigheid, endogeen testosteron (gewoon zonder een spuit in je reet that is) zorgt wel voor een verhoogd libido?
 
Bedankt voor dit opzoekwerk en bijhorende samenvatting. Verplaatst naar info.
 
  • Topic Starter Topic Starter
  • #68
MrJ zei:
Even ter vervolledigheid, endogeen testosteron (gewoon zonder een spuit in je reet that is) zorgt wel voor een verhoogd libido?

Ben ik niet zeker over. Feit is wel dat afname van endogene test zorgt voor een vermindering in seksueelgedrag. Verhoging boven basale levels lijkt dus geen invloed te hebben op het gedrag.

Tot nu toe heb ik het ook alleen gehad over seksueelgedrag. Sommige onderzoeken laten wel zien dat mannen door exogene test vaker "met een harde lopen".
 
Beetje ruimdenkender graag...

Ik denk wat het libido aangaat, dat je kan stellen dat testosteron (in natuurlijke vorm) belangrijk is zowel fysisch al psychisch. Vrouwen krijgen niet voor niets test-pleisters om het libido te verhogen. Testosteron geeft bij oudere mannen (TRT) in veel gevallen meer levenslust, libido en een soms gezondere fysieke conditie. Daar is echter in wetenschappelijke kringen nog heel veel onderzoek voor nodig en geen enkele dokter kan je garanderen dat het bij iedereen zal werken en hoe die werking precies tot stand komt.

De vraag is of, bij een reeds gezond libido, exogeen testosteron aan lage tot vrij hoge dosis wel een 'fysiek' opvallend versterkt libido kan veroorzaken. Of het placebo is of niet is zeer moeilijk te beoordelen. Het libido is voor zover ik weet 99% een werking van de hersenen. Erecties zijn een direct gevolg van de werking van de hersenen. Je krijgt geen erectie als er niet eerst een signaal gestuurd is. Je hebt geen verlangen naar coïtus als er niet eerst signaal komt van de hersenen. Test zou een werking hebben in de hersenen maar daar is weinig over bekend.

Dus waarom vind iedereen het zo vreemd dat, als personen niet weten dat ze testosteron toegediend krijgen, er weinig of soms niets gebeurd met hun libido? Misschien omdat de hersenen simpelweg ingewikkelder zijn dan we denken, ongeacht het placebo effect? Misschien omdat er tijdens die studies geen enkele keer een signaal kwam van de hersenen waardoor de proefpersonen meer zin kregen in coïtus, dus een verhoging van het libido niet merkbaar is. Een kliniek is nu niet echt een erotische omgeving...

Men neemt verder niet elk individu apart maar neemt de toestand van de groep als referentie, dus als 1 persoon wel aanzienlijk verschil merkte zal dat niet voldoende zijn. Daaruit kan je ook concluderen dat niet elk lichaam met dezelfde intensiteit zal reageren , ofwel andere bijwerkingen krijgt. De ene persoon meer spiergroei , de andere wat meer libido en nog een andere wat meer acne.

Het is ieg een interessante samenvatting die blijkbaar heel wat mensen tegen de schenen trapt, maar waar ik wel respect voor heb omdat het veel tijd vraagt en niet perse een persoonlijke mening hoeft weer te geven, eerder een weergave van de wetenschappelijke resultaten.
 
Big'r haalt alles uit zogenaamde studie's zonder enige onderbouwing van ervaren body builders.

Ik erger mezelf al geruime tijd aan zijn beterwetendheid.
En idd ben ik nu flink aan het kuren met testo (shit geen enthate maar cypionaat...dat is natuurlijk het verschil dat ik nu wel een erg kort lontje heb...had ik maat enthate gebruikt dan had ik nu geen kort lontje gehad en niet de gehele dag aan coïtus gedacht bullshit

Van testo (enthate of cypionaat) gaat je coïtus drift wel omhoog (wanneer ik een damesfiets zie word ik al geil :D ) en van testo krijg ik wel een kort lontje.
Iedereen in mijn naaste omgeving kan hier over mee praten.

Big'r ik: doe eerst meer persoonlijke ervaring en ga iets minder het internet afzoeken op studie's betreffende AS.

Ik zal hier wel een berg comentaar van je krijgen, maar ja sowat
 
Als je commentaar hebt doe je dat maar onder je originele account, banned bij deze.
 
  • Topic Starter Topic Starter
  • #72
Cobra1968 zei:
Big'r haalt alles uit zogenaamde studie's zonder enige onderbouwing van ervaren body builders.

Normaal gezien zou ik je vragen welke onderbouwing bodybuilders hiervoor zouden kunnen hebben.

Cobra1968 zei:
Ik erger mezelf al geruime tijd aan zijn beterwetendheid.

Betweterig ben ik niet. Ik snap dat ik zo overkom doordat ik vaak op topics inga en duidelijk aannemelijk maak dat iets wel of niet zo is.

Betweterig zou inhouden dat ik heel veel weet. Dit is dus niet zo. Daarom kijk ik naar wat mensen zeggen die er wel veel van weten --> onafhankelijke wetenschap die daadwerkelijk naar situaties en feiten hebben gekeken.
Betweterig zou ook kunnen inhouden dat ik niet opensta voor nieuwe dingen.
Doordat ik continu op zoek ben naar informatie en mijn draadjes ook geregeld aanpas, kun je toch niet constateren dat ik halsstarrig aan informatie vasthoud.

Het maakt me niet uit wie me wijst op andere bewijzen die zijn gevonden om mijn (eigenlijk dus niet mijn, maar van wetenschappers) stellingen af te breken.
Wanneer iemand onderbouwde informatie laat zien die aantoont dat iets anders in elkaar zit, zal ik mezelf hier bij neerleggen. (onder protest :D )


Cobra1968 zei:
En idd ben ik nu flink aan het kuren met testo (shit geen enthate maar cypionaat...dat is natuurlijk het verschil dat ik nu wel een erg kort lontje heb...had ik maat enthate gebruikt dan had ik nu geen kort lontje gehad en niet de gehele dag aan coïtus gedacht bullshit

De enige "kritieken" die ik tot nu toe heb gehad, kwamen van mensen die van de daken schreeuwen hoe geil ze wel niet worden van exogeen testosteron.

Je zult nergens terugvinden dat ik deze geilheid ontken! Wat je voelt dat voel je en wat je doet dat doe je.

Het komt op mij over alsof mensen niet doorhebben wat een placebo inhoudt:
Het placebo is niet het gevoel of het gedrag. Deze zijn beide echt!
Het placebo zit hem in het feit dat jij er van overtuigd bent dat dit gevoel/gedrag veroorzaakt wordt door de testosteron.

Of denk je dat je boven een placebo effect staat?
Dat dat jou niet zal gebeuren?
Een placebo effect vind altijd plaats in je onderbewuste, doordat je gevoel en gedachten iets voor "persoonlijke waarheid" aannemen. En onder deze definitie kan het iedereen overkomen.

Dat jij een mogelijk placebo effect al bij voorbaat ontkent, zegt meer over jou dan over mij. Hoe kun je van jezelf zeggen dat je openminded bent wanneer je iets van te voren al uitsluit zonder er ooit kritisch bij je zelf naar te hebben gekeken?

Cobra1968 zei:
Van testo (enthate of cypionaat) gaat je coïtus drift wel omhoog (wanneer ik een damesfiets zie word ik al geil :D ) en van testo krijg ik wel een kort lontje.
Iedereen in mijn naaste omgeving kan hier over mee praten.

Dat ontken ik ook niet. Kun jij aantonen dat het van de test komt?
Kun jij aantonen dat er test in je vial zit?

Cobra1968 zei:
Big'r ik: doe eerst meer persoonlijke ervaring en ga iets minder het internet afzoeken op studie's betreffende AS.

Ik zal hier wel een berg comentaar van je krijgen, maar ja sowat

Zelf had ik al een kuur achter de rug met 10 weken 500 mg test. Merkte niks van enige gedrags/humeur/seksueelgedrag verandering. Maar ik neem mezelf nooit als referentie wanneer ik advies geef. Ik kijk naar wat werkt voor de overgrote meerderheid.

Zelf reageer ik helemaal niet op steroiden van GS. Wanneer je mijn persoonlijke mening erover vraagt kan ik niet anders concluderen dan dat het rotzooi is. MAAR 75-80% van de mensen reageert er blijkbaar wel goed op.
Dus ga ik GS niet met de grond gelijk maken, omdat ik heus wel verder dan mijn eigen ervaringen kan kijken. Kan jij dat van jezelf zeggen...........?

Hetzelfde geldt voor creatine. Ik behoor tot de (schatting) 1-5% van de mensen waarop creatine een negatief effect heeft. Dit betekent dat ik veel achteruit ga in kracht wanneer ik het gebruik.
Is dit een reden voor mij om creatinegebruik af te raden? Natuurlijk niet!

Wanneer ik alleen maar naar persoonlijke ervaringen zou kijken zou ik geen objectief "advies" kunnen geven. Daarom neem ik dit hierin helemaal niet mee.
 
  • Topic Starter Topic Starter
  • #73
Voor de mensen die "die paar studies" die ik post, en die niet relevant zouden zijn afzeiken terwijl niemand er ook maar enigszins blijk van geeft zich er in te hebben verdiept, en waarbij ook duidelijk blijkt dat ze niet de moeite hebben genomen om mijn abstracts door te lezen!!! heb ik er buiten pubmed ook een "google" op los gelaten.
En dit is wat de experts ervan zeggen:

Vivienne Parry: De waarheid over Hormonen
Wat gebeurt er met ons als we verliefd, huilerig, prikkelbaar of ronduit onuitstaanbaar zijn? '
The truth about hormones' vertaald door Sanne van Vuuren
London 2005 / ISBN 9058313581

De eerste 42 bladzijden met het begrippenapparaat zijn erg technisch, maar daarna wordt het boek boeiend. Je krijgt veel informatie en hardnekkige misverstanden worden uit de wereld geholpen. Testosteron toedienen bijvoorbeeld maakt de man niet potenter, hij leeft er ook niet langer door, maar juist korter. Overgewicht wordt niet door gebrek aan zelfbeheersing maar door een tekort aan leptine in de hand gewerkt. Baby's bepalen zelf het moment van hun geboorte door een hormoonuitstorting van hun bijnieren die op het moment van hun geboorte veel groter zijn dan die van hun moeder. En als Kennedy vijf jaar eerder was geboren dan had de geschiedenis een andere wending genomen, want dan had Kennedy niet lang genoeg geleefd om Amerika's president te worden. Dankzij het gesynthetiseerde hormoon cortison kon hij de ziekte van Addison overleven. Dit is een willekeurige greep uit een hele serie wetenswaardigheden. Ze zijn meer dan leuke conversatieonderwerpen voor verjaardagsfeestjes onder andere doordat ze je duidelijk maken waaróm het zo moeilijk is om je gedrag te veranderen en wélke gedragsverandering desalniettemin bovenaan je lijst goede voornemens moet staan: meer bewegen.
http://www.boekgrrls.nl/BgDiversen/Aanbevelingen/ParryV.htm

The Link Between Sexual Dysfunction (Desire & Arousal Disorders) and Hypogonadism: Focus on Special Populations
Irwin Goldstein, MD
Director, Institute for Sexual Medicine
Professor of Urology and Gynecology
Boston University School of Medicine
Boston, MA

What is most important for me to teach physicians about androgens and their role in coïtusual function? It is important for physicians to recognize that androgens are necessary for healthy genital structure and function. Few people realize that androgen exposure is needed to maintain nerves, arteries, smooth muscles, and connective tissue in the genitals in both genders.
For example, Aversa et al 2 showed that patients with organic erectile dysfunction had free testosterone levels about 40% lower than patients with psychogenic erectile dysfunction. Free testosterone levels correlated with impaired compliance of cavernous arteries on dynamic duplex ultrasound. Moreover, in another investigation, androgen deficiency was shown to decrease the frequency of coïtusual desire, fantasy, and intercourse. 3
In eugonadal men, administration of exogenous testosterone may augment libido and the frequency and rigidity of spontaneous erections but does not necessarily stimulate coïtusual activity. 4,5
[Link niet meer beschikbaar]

De endocrinology of coïtusual arousal laat zien dat Big'r toch wel tot de juiste conclusies is gekomen:

(TE1)The endocrinology of coïtusual arousal
The exploration of testosterone as a method of male contraception has led to further studies of the effects of increasing circulating testosterone above a normal baseline by means of exogenous testosterone administration. Anderson et al.(1992), using weekly injections of either placebo or testosterone enanthate (200 mg) over 8 weeks, found no effect of the exogenous testosterone on coïtusual activity, either with a partner or as masturbation, but a significant increase in a measure of coïtusual interest independent of coïtusual interaction with the partner. Bagatell et al. (1994b) and Yates et al.(1999), in eugonadal men, found no effects of increasing testosterone on frequency of coïtusual activity, or in the latter study, daily measures of coïtusual interest.
http://joe.endocrinology-journals.org/cgi/content/full/186/3/411


Jawel, Big'r kwam zelfs een meta-analyse tegen. Voel je echter vrij om deze compleet te negeren:

(TE15)Effects of testosterone on coïtusual function in men: results of a meta-analysis
Objectives The role of androgen decline in the coïtusual activity of adult males is controversial. To clarify whether coïtusual function would benefit from testosterone (T) treatment in men with partially or severely reduced serum T levels, we conducted a systematic review and meta-analysis of placebo-controlled studies published in the past 30 years. The aim of this study was to assess and compare the effects of T on the different domains of coïtusual life.

Data source A comprehensive search of all published randomized clinical trials was performed in MEDLINE, the Cochrane Library, EMBASE and Current Contents databases.

Review methods Guided by prespecified criteria, software-assisted data abstraction and quality assessed by two independent reviewers, a total of 17 randomized placebo-controlled trials were found to be eligible. For each domain of coïtusual function we calculated the standardized mean difference relative to T and reported the results of pooled estimates of T treatment using the random effect model of meta-analysis. Heterogeneity, reproducibility and consistency of the findings across studies were explored using sensitivity and meta-regression analysis.

Results Overall, 656 subjects were evaluated: 284 were randomized to T, 284 to placebo (P) and 88 treated in cross-over. The median study length was 3 months (range 1-36 months). Our meta-analysis showed that in men with an average T level at baseline below 12 nmol/l, T treatment moderately improved the number of nocturnal erections, coïtusual thoughts and motivation, number of successful intercourses, scores of erectile function and overall coïtusual satisfaction, whereas T had no effect on erectile function in eugonadal men compared to placebo. Heterogeneity was explored by grouping studies according to the characteristics of the study population. A cut-off value of 10 nmol/l for the mean T of the study population failed to predict the effect of treatment, whereas the presence of risk factors for vasculogenic erectile dysfunction (ED), comorbidities and shorter evaluation periods were associated with greater treatment effects in the studies performed in hypogonadal, but not in eugonadal, men. Meta-regression analysis showed that the effects of T on erectile function, but not libido, were inversely related to the mean baseline T concentration. The meta-analysis of available studies indicates that T treatment might be useful for improving vasculogenic ED in selected subjects with low or low-normal T levels. The evidence for a beneficial effect of T treatment on erectile function should be tempered with the caveats that the effect tends to decline over time, is progressively smaller with increasing baseline T levels, and long-term safety data are not available. The present meta-analysis highlights the need, and pitfalls, for large-scale, long-term, randomized controlled trials to formally investigate the efficacy of T replacement in symptomatic middle-aged and elderly men with reduced T levels and ED.
[Link niet meer beschikbaar]
 
Laten we het niet te hard gaan spelen, degenen die er voor kiezen om praktijkervaringen belangrijker te vinden zullen toch nooit een wetenschappelijk onderzoek verkiezen boven hun eigen ervaring. Hun goed recht, maar ze moeten er rekening mee houden dat er ook velen zijn juist wel waarde hechten aan wetenschappelijk onderzoek.

Persoonlijk vind ik dat je van beide groepen kan leren, laat het dus geen strijd worden tussen wetenschap en praktijk. Nergens voor nodig, als je iets anders ervaard dan in een onderzoek wordt waargenomen maakt dat het nog niet tot een onwaarheid. Nu lijkt het er op dat sommigen hier die onderzoeken zijn als regelrechte aanval op hun eigen ervaringen, terwijl Big'r alleen de bevindingen weergeeft.
 
DBC01 zei:
Ik hoor het al. Als ik dit onderzoek had geplaatst zwéér ik 1000% dat heel het board over me heen gevallen was betreffende die opmerking over testosteron en coïtusualiteit en dat ik -met recht- op m'n palats werd gezet. Maar angezien het hier gaat om iemand die wel vaker wetenschappelijk voer neerzet moeten we er voorzichtig mee omgaan en danken voor de mededeling al weten we zelf wel beter in onze kuurtjes.

In ieder geval is er duidelijkheid over wie wat en hoe :thumbs:

Hij is op zen plaats gezet. Foutje gemaakt, en er terecht op gewezen. Wat is het nut van daar vier pagina's van een thread aan te wijten hem er met zen neus in te wrijven ? Het is en blijft een heel informatieve post of je het nu eens bent met zen conclusies of niet. Hij post tenminste nog nuttige dingen die ergens een grond in vinden, wat meer is dan kan gezegd worden van jou, die hier je tijd zit te verdoen op een ander zen fouten te staren zonder stil te staan bij de stommiteiten die jij in het verleden al begaan hebt, die veel talrijker zijn.
 
EricR zei:
Laten we het niet te hard gaan spelen, degenen die er voor kiezen om praktijkervaringen belangrijker te vinden zullen toch nooit een wetenschappelijk onderzoek verkiezen boven hun eigen ervaring. Hun goed recht, maar ze moeten er rekening mee houden dat er ook velen zijn juist wel waarde

In dit geval sluit het een het ander niet uit. De studies voldoen niet aan criteria om op een sluitende manier te zeggen dat test geen invloed heeft erop in de dosis en gebruikswijze die de meesten hier hanteren. Het is een interpretatiefoutje, meer niet. Het is moeilijk sluitende conclusies te trekken over multifactoriele gegevens waar niet eens alle factoren in kaart zijn gebracht. Gemakshalve zou ik dan ook voorstellen aan beide partijen om dus ook geen conclusies te trekken.
 
Je moet wat Karmapunten verdelen over andere gebruikers voordat je Big'r opnieuw punten kan geven.

Bedankt voor het plaatsen van wat hoogwaardige studies.

Beetje jammer dat een paar individuen op een wel heel laag-interlectuele manier deze topic vervuilen met weinig inhoudelijke posts.

Het is goed om jouw meta-analyse over testosteron-enth. eens kritisch te beoordelen op "schoonheidsfoutjes" (al ben ik net als Big Tony van mening dat het trekken van conclusies over betrouwbare onderzoeken met enige voorzichtigheid moet gebeuren).
Het is ook goed om te discusseren over zaken als persoonlijke ervaringen versus onderzoeken, maar het is erg jammer dat bepaalde personen op een bijna kinderlijke manier hun gelijk proberen te halen. Haalt de kwaliteit van de tread goed naar beneden....
 
  • Topic Starter Topic Starter
  • #78
Ik zal zelf ook ophouden er over te zeiken.
Eigenlijk boeit het verder ook helemaal niet of exo-test nu wel of niet de directe veroorzaker is van een persoonlijke ervaring in verhoogde coïtusuele activiteit.

Either way is het prettig om constant met een erecte jongeheer rond te lopen, zelfs in de winter (alhoewel het in de zomer natuurlijk helemaal goddelijk is).

Wel zal ik binnenkort (heb er nu even geen zin in) nog even de rest van de onderzoeken posten, en mijn openingspost compleet aanpassen zodat hij wat overzichterlijker en duidelijker wordt.

Want natuurlijk gaat het meer om de andere dingen die uit de onderzoeken blijken, aangezien we het toch allemaal voor de body doen.
 
Yep,achteraf bleek de onderzoeker fake test e te hebben getest vandaar die heftige reakties.
 
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