veel last na injecteren
- Topic starter mistermx
- Startdatum
- Recente activiteit Recente activiteit:
- Reacties 180
- Weergaven 15.842
- Volgers 6
- Lid sinds
- 18 mei 2006
- Berichten
- 11.715
- Waardering
- 991
- Lengte
- 1m75
- Massa
- 40kg
- Vetpercentage
hey, misschien moeten we er nog aan wennen. maar ik weet echt wel wanneer iets ECHT pijn doet of wanneer je er gewoon een beetje last van hebt. het is nu 6 dagen geleden dat ik heb geinjecteerd en er zit nu echt zo'n grote harde bonk in me bil waar ik bijna mijn hand op kan leggen. het doet nu niet pijn meer. de hevigste pijn is echt na die 36 uur ongeveer. daarna komt de zwelling zeg maar en begint de pijn met de dag af te nemen. ik ben niet bang dat het een of andere gevaarlijke infectie ofzo is want die gaat natuurlijk niet zomaar over. dit gaat wel na een 1,5 week over ofzo. maar ik ondervind er wel veel last van. dus iemand tips?
misschien in het boven been proberen? wil dit misschien wel maar ben alleen bang dat ik dalijk dan ee nweek niet kan lopen en dat wil ik zeker niet hebben. dat in niet kan zitten, en in bed maar op de andere kant moet gaan liggen heb ik nog vrede mee.
misschien in het boven been proberen? wil dit misschien wel maar ben alleen bang dat ik dalijk dan ee nweek niet kan lopen en dat wil ik zeker niet hebben. dat in niet kan zitten, en in bed maar op de andere kant moet gaan liggen heb ik nog vrede mee.
aleyezonme
Competitive Bodybuilder
- Lid sinds
- 16 dec 2007
- Berichten
- 2.106
- Waardering
- 17
- Lid sinds
- 18 mei 2006
- Berichten
- 11.715
- Waardering
- 991
- Lengte
- 1m75
- Massa
- 40kg
- Vetpercentage
idd dat was mijn volgende vraag...
denk dat het niet diep genoeg zit dan
aleyezonme
Competitive Bodybuilder
- Lid sinds
- 16 dec 2007
- Berichten
- 2.106
- Waardering
- 17
aleyezonme
Competitive Bodybuilder
- Lid sinds
- 16 dec 2007
- Berichten
- 2.106
- Waardering
- 17
hoeveel ml zette je dan weg in die 30 sec? en zat de naald er met zijn volledige lengte in je bil?
Virgin, naald of slecht injecteren heeft het niks mee te maken. Ligt aan je gear! Pijn is onvergelijkbaar met de pijn die een beginner heeft na de eerste paar injects. Heb het zelfde probleem met m'n huidige kuur gehad. 8 weken lang pijn en zwellingen. Precies zoals jij die ook omschrijft. Vochtzakken en rood. Begint 2/3 dagen na de inject en houdt ruim een week aan. Kost je je slaap en trainen (vooral benen) gaat ook niet 100% met zoveel pijn. Was zo stijf als een plank, kon niet eens m'n sokken of schoenen zelf aan doen.
Ik was nog zo stom om zo lang door te gaan dus wees verstandig en stap over op een ander merk/spul. Vorige week ben ik overgegaan van HG test-e (de boosdoener) naar HG sust, zit nu 4 dagen na de eerste sust inject, nergens last van zoals het hoort.
Wil je toch doorgaan neem dan 2x 600mg ibuprofen p/d en na de inject een paar uur in een heet bad liggen. Dit zal aanzienlijk de pijn en zwellingen verminderen.
Ik was nog zo stom om zo lang door te gaan dus wees verstandig en stap over op een ander merk/spul. Vorige week ben ik overgegaan van HG test-e (de boosdoener) naar HG sust, zit nu 4 dagen na de eerste sust inject, nergens last van zoals het hoort.
Wil je toch doorgaan neem dan 2x 600mg ibuprofen p/d en na de inject een paar uur in een heet bad liggen. Dit zal aanzienlijk de pijn en zwellingen verminderen.
- Lid sinds
- 16 nov 2006
- Berichten
- 11.657
- Waardering
- 2.909
- Lengte
- 1m86
- Massa
- 102kg
ps: Zie ook de post van Kriel: http://forum.dutchbodybuilding.com/f10/solvents-kunstof-226560/
Aangezien ibuprufen onstekingsremmend werkt (en ibuprufen dus goed werkt) lijkt het me dat het toch de oorzaak een soort onsteking is.
Verder is er een gel tegen zwellingen. Verkort de duur en verlicht ook een beetje. Weet alleen niet de Nederlandse naam maar 't bevat:
escina en dietilamonio (merknaam reparil)
Oh en wat je vooral niet moet doen is masseren. Althans wat ik deed was met m'n opgezwollen reedt in het bubbelbad gaan liggen dan dan precies met de spuitplekken boven de luchtgaatjes zodat het gebied zeg maar gemasseerd werd. De pijn en zwellingen waren daarna dubbel zo erg.
Aangezien ibuprufen onstekingsremmend werkt (en ibuprufen dus goed werkt) lijkt het me dat het toch de oorzaak een soort onsteking is.
Verder is er een gel tegen zwellingen. Verkort de duur en verlicht ook een beetje. Weet alleen niet de Nederlandse naam maar 't bevat:
escina en dietilamonio (merknaam reparil)
Oh en wat je vooral niet moet doen is masseren. Althans wat ik deed was met m'n opgezwollen reedt in het bubbelbad gaan liggen dan dan precies met de spuitplekken boven de luchtgaatjes zodat het gebied zeg maar gemasseerd werd. De pijn en zwellingen waren daarna dubbel zo erg.
Oele
Dutch Bodybuilder
- Lid sinds
- 15 dec 2008
- Berichten
- 516
- Waardering
- 15
- Lengte
- 1m88
- Massa
- 105kg
- Lid sinds
- 16 nov 2006
- Berichten
- 11.657
- Waardering
- 2.909
- Lengte
- 1m86
- Massa
- 102kg
Ja but joe have a buffy ass, my friend..
Ik vindt de 0.8x40 lang zat...
krieltje
Monstrous Giant
- Lid sinds
- 6 okt 2004
- Berichten
- 11.684
- Waardering
- 368
- Lengte
- 1m65
- Massa
- 106kg
- Vetpercentage
- 15%
High Benzyl Alcohol content.
Benzyl Alcohol (BA) is used to increase the lipid solubility of esterfied compounds and to prevent bacteria growth in the oil. Most UGL's use excess BA or only BA as the co-solvent, due to it's modest price. Unfortunately, it can cause the destruction of cells and significant localised pain and inflammation. The discomfort is characterised by fairly rapid onset of a painful, red, swollen area. This can be ameliorated by diluting the compound with sterile cutting oil (grapeseed, cottonseed, sesameseed). A 1:1 ratio often works well.
2) Precipitation of short estered compounds
The shorter an ester, the less solubility is has in oil. This necessitates higher concentrations of BA to prevent the compound from 'crashing' out of solution. When the oil is injected, the BA is absorbed from the location of the oil depot. This caused the active compound to precipitate fine crystals within the muscle. The onset of this pain is often 4-12 hours after injection and is characterised by a hard, red, swelling at the injection site. To prevent this an additional co-solvent is needed, Benzyl Benzoate. BB maintains solubility of the esterfied compound past the point at which BA has been removed, preventing crystaline precipitation. Most UGL's don't add this to their compounded oils due to the higher cost. If added at approximately 20% by volume you can prevent most associated short ester pain.
3) High concentration (mg/ml)
Per above, Long ester = high solubility, short ester = less solubility. Human grade pharmaceutical hormones are almost never dosed higher then 200mg/ml for long esters (cypionate). To increase the concentration, a larger amount of BA is necessary as a co-solvent. This can result in a similar reaction to that caused by short esters with pain and swelling as the BA is absorbed and solubility decreases and precipitation occurs. In this instance you don't 'need' the additional co-solvent (BB, but it still helps!). Instead, you can simply dilute the compounding oil with sterile cutting oil to lower the concentration to within the solubility for that ester.
4) Fascia displacement
This occurs when a large volumetric quantity is injected into a single site. The oil pushes the muscle fascia apart and results in stretching and eventually scarring with the muscle. This can be avoided by reducing single site injection volume and spreading the injections between multiple sites. This is also a good idea as more smaller, more frequent dosing significantly reduces many of the side effects of AAS. These become exacerbated by peak and troughs in hormone levels. The reduction in side effects is particularly dramatic with trenbolone acetate when an ED injection schedule is maintained.
5) Histamine reaction
This doesn't occur as often, but is still a potential possibility. For a compound to become biologically active the ester must be cleaved from the parent molecule. This results in the formation of a carboxylic acid. Some people find that they are sensitive to one of these. This results in swelling, warmth, redness and possibly a rash at the injection site. In the worst instance the individual may have an existing allergy to the carrier oil (sessame, etc...) that can result in anaphylaxis (swelling and occlusion of the airway) in addition to localised inflammation. If any histamine reaction results, immediately discontinue use and switch to an alternate carrier oil and/or alternate ester. If anaphylaxis results, immediately seek medical attention.
Ultimately I break these down into the following set of rules.
1) Dilute compound with sterile cutting oil to get mg/ml at <=200 for long esters and <=100 for short esters.
2) Add 20% Benzyl Benzoate by volume to propionate and phenylpropionate esters.
3) Use a 23g needle to prevent high output pressure from smaller needles
4) Inject very slowly to reduce muscle fascia displacement
5) Inject frequently w/ less volume, <3ml for large muscles and <2ml for smaller muscles
6) Rotate sites every time (I use six sites)
7) Gently warm the oil to improve viscosity
8) Ensure that the injection is deep intra-muscular and fully through any sub cutaneous fat
You can also add:
100mg benadryl one hour prior to injection
800mg ibuprofen one hour prior to injection
However, the ibuprofen will reduce the activity of autocrine based transcription and activity of PGE and PGF so continued use can result in less muscle hypertrophy.
Denk dat jullie het in 4 of 5 moeten zoeken. Vooral als jullie het niet gewend zijn,kan dit aardig pijnlijk zijn.
Gegarandeerd dat je het over 2 injects niet meer voelt
Benzyl Alcohol (BA) is used to increase the lipid solubility of esterfied compounds and to prevent bacteria growth in the oil. Most UGL's use excess BA or only BA as the co-solvent, due to it's modest price. Unfortunately, it can cause the destruction of cells and significant localised pain and inflammation. The discomfort is characterised by fairly rapid onset of a painful, red, swollen area. This can be ameliorated by diluting the compound with sterile cutting oil (grapeseed, cottonseed, sesameseed). A 1:1 ratio often works well.
2) Precipitation of short estered compounds
The shorter an ester, the less solubility is has in oil. This necessitates higher concentrations of BA to prevent the compound from 'crashing' out of solution. When the oil is injected, the BA is absorbed from the location of the oil depot. This caused the active compound to precipitate fine crystals within the muscle. The onset of this pain is often 4-12 hours after injection and is characterised by a hard, red, swelling at the injection site. To prevent this an additional co-solvent is needed, Benzyl Benzoate. BB maintains solubility of the esterfied compound past the point at which BA has been removed, preventing crystaline precipitation. Most UGL's don't add this to their compounded oils due to the higher cost. If added at approximately 20% by volume you can prevent most associated short ester pain.
3) High concentration (mg/ml)
Per above, Long ester = high solubility, short ester = less solubility. Human grade pharmaceutical hormones are almost never dosed higher then 200mg/ml for long esters (cypionate). To increase the concentration, a larger amount of BA is necessary as a co-solvent. This can result in a similar reaction to that caused by short esters with pain and swelling as the BA is absorbed and solubility decreases and precipitation occurs. In this instance you don't 'need' the additional co-solvent (BB, but it still helps!). Instead, you can simply dilute the compounding oil with sterile cutting oil to lower the concentration to within the solubility for that ester.
4) Fascia displacement
This occurs when a large volumetric quantity is injected into a single site. The oil pushes the muscle fascia apart and results in stretching and eventually scarring with the muscle. This can be avoided by reducing single site injection volume and spreading the injections between multiple sites. This is also a good idea as more smaller, more frequent dosing significantly reduces many of the side effects of AAS. These become exacerbated by peak and troughs in hormone levels. The reduction in side effects is particularly dramatic with trenbolone acetate when an ED injection schedule is maintained.
5) Histamine reaction
This doesn't occur as often, but is still a potential possibility. For a compound to become biologically active the ester must be cleaved from the parent molecule. This results in the formation of a carboxylic acid. Some people find that they are sensitive to one of these. This results in swelling, warmth, redness and possibly a rash at the injection site. In the worst instance the individual may have an existing allergy to the carrier oil (sessame, etc...) that can result in anaphylaxis (swelling and occlusion of the airway) in addition to localised inflammation. If any histamine reaction results, immediately discontinue use and switch to an alternate carrier oil and/or alternate ester. If anaphylaxis results, immediately seek medical attention.
Ultimately I break these down into the following set of rules.
1) Dilute compound with sterile cutting oil to get mg/ml at <=200 for long esters and <=100 for short esters.
2) Add 20% Benzyl Benzoate by volume to propionate and phenylpropionate esters.
3) Use a 23g needle to prevent high output pressure from smaller needles
4) Inject very slowly to reduce muscle fascia displacement
5) Inject frequently w/ less volume, <3ml for large muscles and <2ml for smaller muscles
6) Rotate sites every time (I use six sites)
7) Gently warm the oil to improve viscosity
8) Ensure that the injection is deep intra-muscular and fully through any sub cutaneous fat
You can also add:
100mg benadryl one hour prior to injection
800mg ibuprofen one hour prior to injection
However, the ibuprofen will reduce the activity of autocrine based transcription and activity of PGE and PGF so continued use can result in less muscle hypertrophy.
Denk dat jullie het in 4 of 5 moeten zoeken. Vooral als jullie het niet gewend zijn,kan dit aardig pijnlijk zijn.
Gegarandeerd dat je het over 2 injects niet meer voelt
nooit geprobeerd maar blijkbaar schijnt het te helpen : lidocaine
Injections Free of Pain with Lidocaine!
Wednesday, 11 November 2009 01:35
Since I posted my last Dan Duchaine article, I've been flooded with requests for more stories about the guru or something from his bag of tricks. When I remembered this little gem I just had to share it with you. Now, what I'm about to discuss here is by no means new; it's one of those little things that can slip by because we assume everyone already knows it. As basic as this little protocol is, I'll bet there are a bunch of you that never heard of it. And just as many who will be grateful for it because the old saying "no pain, no gain," is not always true. Sometimes pain can just be a pain, and if you can get around it, why not?
If you've ever done test suspension, a site injection oil, Winny-V or anything with a sizable hit of benzyl alcohol in it such as the Fina you made from Finaplix pellets, the first thing out of your mouth just as soon as the stuff starts coming out of the needle is, "****!. That hurts!!" It's the immediate type of sting I'm talking about, not the delayed ache like you'd get with Sustanon or any other mixture that contains test propionat. Let me tell you something, a little Lidocaine (1/4 CC of 1% solution, according to Dan Duchaine) drawn into the same syringe as the rest of your shot, will remove the sting of an otherwise painful injection. If you're running water-based drugs such as suspension or Winny V-- such fast acting drugs require daily or every other day injections- - Lidocaine could be your salvation.
Lidocaine is a anti-arrhythmic drug commonly used to restore a regular heartbeat in cardiac patients with arrhythmias. This effect is produced both by delaying abnormal nerve pulses to the heart and reducing irritability of the heart tissue. Lidocaine is also used topically as a local anesthetic to produce numbness or loss of feeling before surgery or other painful procedures, and can be injected, or mixed with oil or water-based preparations to numb the irritating effect some drugs may have. Lidocaine is valuable to bodybuilders because of its very rapid onset time and an intermediate duration of action at the site in which it was injected. Lidocaine is available by prescription, but can be purchased on the black market, overseas at pharmacies or through veterinary supply sources, and, of course, the internet.
Competent medical research has established that Lidocaine is safe even in dosages as high as 50mg/kilogram; however, as with any drug, always use the lowest concentration and volume that will still produce good results. The maximum safe dose for Lidocaine has been established to be approximately 4 mg/kg. For example, a 150 pound adult should receive no more than 300 mg or 30 cc of a 1% solution. That would be 120 preparations at one time; according to Duchaine's proposed protocol. I could be wrong, but most of you are probably not slamming that much gear at once so I don't think ODing is anything to worry about.
Those of you doing Synthol or Pump N' Pose are already using Lidocaine and probably don't even know it. Perhaps you do, but here is something many of you don't know. One day, the Guru was helping [so-and-so big-name chick bodybuilder] get ready for a show and she was having severe cramps in her calves the morning of the show; so bad she couldn't flex them for more than a nanosecond. So, Dan said, "do you mind if I try shooting some of this in your calf?" Naturally, she said, "Go ahead." Three minutes later she could flex her calf for five seconds. He loaded her up good a while later and she glided right through prejudging without a problem. Mind you, that is not transcendental science, but it is something to think about.
One little thing I heard of that you might want to consider if you were to actually go to another country and buy some Lidocaine and use it along with some kind of oil-based gear that would be legally available in that country. Make sure the "air bubble" goes to the front of the syringe before you push. Since Lidocaine is a clear liquid, it'll look like an air bubble in the syringe-- you probably don't want to aspirate that bubble. Since oil is lighter than water, you're going to want to hold the syringe needle down so that the Lidocaine exits the needle ahead of the gear. That way it will do its job ahead of the gear your pushing in after it A couple of pecks with your finger against the barrel will help it get down there. Obviously with water-based gear, this is not necessary, the lidocaine will dissipate evenly and do it's job as the juice pushes in. This is just another little trick I thought you guys might like to know about!
Injections Free of Pain with Lidocaine!
Wednesday, 11 November 2009 01:35
Since I posted my last Dan Duchaine article, I've been flooded with requests for more stories about the guru or something from his bag of tricks. When I remembered this little gem I just had to share it with you. Now, what I'm about to discuss here is by no means new; it's one of those little things that can slip by because we assume everyone already knows it. As basic as this little protocol is, I'll bet there are a bunch of you that never heard of it. And just as many who will be grateful for it because the old saying "no pain, no gain," is not always true. Sometimes pain can just be a pain, and if you can get around it, why not?
If you've ever done test suspension, a site injection oil, Winny-V or anything with a sizable hit of benzyl alcohol in it such as the Fina you made from Finaplix pellets, the first thing out of your mouth just as soon as the stuff starts coming out of the needle is, "****!. That hurts!!" It's the immediate type of sting I'm talking about, not the delayed ache like you'd get with Sustanon or any other mixture that contains test propionat. Let me tell you something, a little Lidocaine (1/4 CC of 1% solution, according to Dan Duchaine) drawn into the same syringe as the rest of your shot, will remove the sting of an otherwise painful injection. If you're running water-based drugs such as suspension or Winny V-- such fast acting drugs require daily or every other day injections- - Lidocaine could be your salvation.
Lidocaine is a anti-arrhythmic drug commonly used to restore a regular heartbeat in cardiac patients with arrhythmias. This effect is produced both by delaying abnormal nerve pulses to the heart and reducing irritability of the heart tissue. Lidocaine is also used topically as a local anesthetic to produce numbness or loss of feeling before surgery or other painful procedures, and can be injected, or mixed with oil or water-based preparations to numb the irritating effect some drugs may have. Lidocaine is valuable to bodybuilders because of its very rapid onset time and an intermediate duration of action at the site in which it was injected. Lidocaine is available by prescription, but can be purchased on the black market, overseas at pharmacies or through veterinary supply sources, and, of course, the internet.
Competent medical research has established that Lidocaine is safe even in dosages as high as 50mg/kilogram; however, as with any drug, always use the lowest concentration and volume that will still produce good results. The maximum safe dose for Lidocaine has been established to be approximately 4 mg/kg. For example, a 150 pound adult should receive no more than 300 mg or 30 cc of a 1% solution. That would be 120 preparations at one time; according to Duchaine's proposed protocol. I could be wrong, but most of you are probably not slamming that much gear at once so I don't think ODing is anything to worry about.
Those of you doing Synthol or Pump N' Pose are already using Lidocaine and probably don't even know it. Perhaps you do, but here is something many of you don't know. One day, the Guru was helping [so-and-so big-name chick bodybuilder] get ready for a show and she was having severe cramps in her calves the morning of the show; so bad she couldn't flex them for more than a nanosecond. So, Dan said, "do you mind if I try shooting some of this in your calf?" Naturally, she said, "Go ahead." Three minutes later she could flex her calf for five seconds. He loaded her up good a while later and she glided right through prejudging without a problem. Mind you, that is not transcendental science, but it is something to think about.
One little thing I heard of that you might want to consider if you were to actually go to another country and buy some Lidocaine and use it along with some kind of oil-based gear that would be legally available in that country. Make sure the "air bubble" goes to the front of the syringe before you push. Since Lidocaine is a clear liquid, it'll look like an air bubble in the syringe-- you probably don't want to aspirate that bubble. Since oil is lighter than water, you're going to want to hold the syringe needle down so that the Lidocaine exits the needle ahead of the gear. That way it will do its job ahead of the gear your pushing in after it A couple of pecks with your finger against the barrel will help it get down there. Obviously with water-based gear, this is not necessary, the lidocaine will dissipate evenly and do it's job as the juice pushes in. This is just another little trick I thought you guys might like to know about!
- Lid sinds
- 10 feb 2007
- Berichten
- 2.153
- Waardering
- 221
- Lengte
- 1m73
- Massa
- 85kg
- Vetpercentage
- 8%
