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Sticky Creatine Faq

Discussie in 'Supplementen' gestart door Big-T, 28 jan 2003.

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  1. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    1. Wat is creatine?

    Halverwege de jaren negentig kwam er een sportvoedingssupplement op de markt, dat alle vorige supplementen met stukken sloeg: creatine. Het enige echte sportvoedingssupplement dat ook daadwerkelijk deed wat het beloofde en niet op de IOC-dopinglijst staat. Het duurde dan ook niet lang of topsporters konden niet meer zonder. Over hoe je 'creatief met creatine' kunt zijn, met een paar kanttekeningen in de zijlijn.

    Creatine is een lichaamseigen stof, die uit verschillende aminozuren (arginine, lysine en methionine) in de lever en de nieren kan worden opgebouwd (dagelijks ongeveer 1 gram) of met de voeding (vooral vlees en vis) kan worden opgenomen (dagelijks ongeveer 1 gram). Het lichaam bevat totaal gemiddeld 120 gram creatine. Daarvan bevindt zich zo'n 95% in de spieren. Per dag wordt gemiddeld 2 gram creatine verbruikt. Met voldoende aanmaak en aanvoer worden de creatinefosfaatspiegels in de spieren aangevuld en op peil gehouden.

    2. Hoe werkt creatine?

    De enige brandstof waar je spiercellen op kunnen lopen is ATP of Adenosine Tri Fosfaat. In de omzetting van ATP gaat ATP over in ADP of Adenosine Di Fosfaat. Creatine zorgt ervoor dat je dit ADP weer omzet in ATP. Daarom heet creatine ook wel 'energiefosfaat'. Of het nu koolhydraten, vetten of (bij schaarste van de eerste twee) eiwitten zijn, steeds moeten deze basiselementen van je voeding afgebroken en verwerkt worden tot ATP voor ze kunnen worden gebruikt. Dit systeem heet het ATP-CP systeem en is de eerste trap van een drievoudig systeem voor de energieleverantie.

    3. Wat zijn ATP-CP en andere energiesystemen?

    De spieren bevatten drie systemen die de snelheid van het vrijkomen van energie (om bijvoorbeeld te sporten) bepalen. Het eerste systeem is het ATP-CP energiesysteem, het tweede het melkzuur-energiesysteem, en het derde systeem wordt zuurstof-energiesysteem genoemd. Het doel van alle drie systemen is uiteindelijk de aanvulling van ATP, maar de snelheid waarmee dit gebeurt is bij elk systeem anders. Het ATP-CP systeem kan heel snel energie leveren, maar de energievoorraad is erg klein. CP (creatinefosfaat) moet eerst in ATP worden omgezet, waarna de cellen ATP als energie kunnen gebruiken. De voorraad CP in de spieren is echter beperkt en levert niet langer dan een extra 5 tot 10 seconden energie. Het systeem heeft voor zijn werking geen zuurstof nodig en wordt daarom 'anaeroob' (zonder zuurstof) genoemd. De twee andere systemen leveren energie voor langere duur, het zuurstof-energiesysteem natuurlijk het meest. Hoe explosiever de krachtsinspanning, des te sneller de energie moet worden aangeleverd.

    4. Wat doet creatine aan de sportprestatie?

    Creatinefosfaat is dus een belangrijke energiebron voor korte, maximale inspanningen zoals bijvoorbeeld sprints of korte judo-acties. De hoeveelheid creatinefosfaat in de spieren is voldoende voor 8-12 seconden maximale inspanning. Uit onderzoek is gebleken dat na creatinesuppletie (= extra inname van creatine) maximale sprintprestaties (van 5 sec - 3 min.) verbeteren, dat men sneller herstelt na een sprint en dat vermoeidheid en verzuring wordt uitgesteld. De positieve werking is beperkt tot explosieve sporten (bijv. vechtsporten, spelsporten en sprintnummers). Uit onderzoek is gebleken dat sneller spiermassa wordt opgebouwd tijdens krachttrainingsprogramma's als creatine wordt gebruikt. Waarschijnlijk wordt de opbouw van spiermassa versneld doordat de spiervezels zwellen bij creatinegebruik. Dit is een extra prikkel voor de spiervezels om te groeien.

    5. Zijn er nadelen aan creatine?

    Bij 20-30% van de sporters werkt creatine niet of niet zo goed. Dit hangt samen met de hoeveelheid creatine die van nature al in de spieren zit. Hoe lager het beginniveau hoe groter het effect van creatinesuppletie. De opname van creatine kan wel verbeterd worden door creatine op te lossen in of in te nemen met vruchtensap of een koolhydraatrijke drank. Ook is de creatine-opname in de spieren beter als tijdens de oplaadfase (door)getraind wordt. Cafeïne remt mogelijk de werking van creatine. Het advies is dan ook om voor, tijdens en kort na inname van creatine geen koffie, thee, cola en andere producten die cafeïne bevatten (zoals bijvoorbeeld Red Bull) te gebruiken. Het is raadzaam om pas creatine te gaan gebruiken als je training en voeding in orde zijn en je al een tijdje aan het trainen bent.
     
  2. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Controversieel Onderzoek en Mythes!

    1.
    2.
    Enkele mythes:

    CREATINE TRUTHS & MYTHS

    1.The More Creatine You Take, The Better.

    You've seen some sick bodybuilders chugging down 10-20 grams of creatine. Is it worth it? According to scientists at St. Francis Xavier University in Nova Scotia, at 0.1 grams per kilogram of bodyweight, male athletes excreted 46% of the ingested creatine within 24 hours. For a 220 pound lifter, this means that if he consumes 10g of creatine, 46%, or 4.6g of creatine, is wasted. In another study performed at the Human Performance Laboratory at Ball State University, scientists confirmed that lower doses of creatine monohydrate (5g/day) are effective, and that results can even be achieved without a loading phase.

    2.Creatine Loading Is Mandatory.

    Once again, research is proving that less creatine is needed to deliver results. The research cited above also suggests that creatine loading may be nothing more than a waste. Should you load? In most cases, probably not. If you're an elite athlete, a professional bodybuilder or competitive powerlifter, you may want to consider loading, just in case. For the rest of us, 5g is all it takes.

    3.Creatine Harms The Kidneys And Liver.

    Unless you have a pre-existing medical condition, creatine use should not damage your kidneys or liver. Most of the hype has been the result of anecdotal reports. In one study which tracked healthy athletes over a five-year period, football players who used creatine at levels up to 15.75g of creatine per day showed no effect on markers of renal or kidney stress. In another study conducted by Dr. Kerry Kuehl at the Oregon Health Sciences University in Portland and presented at the 2000 annual meeting of the American College of Sports Medicine, the kidney function of 36 healthy male and female athletes who consumed 10g of creatine per day was examined. After twelve weeks, Dr. Kuehl found that creatine did not adversely affect kidney function.

    4.Creatine Causes Excessive Water Retention.

    More bullshit. A recent double-blind, placebo-controlled study found that, after three months of creatine use, test subjects showed no significant increase in body water. In fact, the creatine group showed greater gains in total body mass and fat-free mass. Best of all, this recent study employed the latest in body composition measurements-deuterated water isotopic analysis which utilizes a non-radioactive "tracer". Now it is possible that some inferior-grade creatine may actually promote water gain that results in a soft, puffy look. However, this can be due to several reasons. One, it may not be due to the creatine, but excess sodium. When cheaply manufactured, excess sodium remains in the finished product.

    5.Creatine Causes Cramping.

    The idea that creatine use causes muscle cramping is anecdotal with no clinical evidence to support this claim. On the contrary, clinical studies show that creatine use is not associated with cramping. In one study, researchers examine 16 men who either supplemented with creatine or a placebo. Under specific dehydration conditions, the occurrence of cramping and tightness were reported in both groups, but "nothing that would suggest a greater incidence associated with creatine supplementation." Two other studies conducted at Arkansas State University in Jonesboro fond that creatine use by 61 Division I athletes during training camps had no effects on the incidence of muscle cramps, injury or illness. These athletes used 15-25g per day on the loading phase, and another 5g/day as maintenance.

    6.Creatine Needs To Be Taken With Grape Juice.

    The concept behind taking creatine with sugar such as grape juice is sound. But the trick is not the grape juice per se. It has to do with insulin's function in the body. For creatine uptake to be enhanced, insulin release should be encouraged. Insulin functions as a kind of creatine pump, pushing it into muscles. If you're going to stick to juice, make sure you get at least 100g of juice for every 5g of creatine. Depending on your level and your goals, juice loaded with sugars may not be suitable. Newer research indicates that you can take your creatine with protein for the same results. A new study reports that taking 5g of creatine with 50g of protein/47g of carbs produced the same results as taking 5g with 96g of carbs.

    7.Creatine Works Better In A Liquid Form.

    In fact, in liquid form, you may not even be getting creatine, but creatinine, a by-product of creatine breakdown. Creatine, in powder form, is extremely stable. When exposed to an acidic environment or moisture for a long time, creatine will begin to break down into worthless creatinine. The citric and phosphoric acids found in many liquid creatines, which are used to preserve the shelf life of these products, actually helps break creatine down. So as a rule of thumb, if you're going to make a creatine shake, drink it by the end of the day.

    8.All Creatines Are The Same.

    Just as there is a difference between $100 champagne and $15 dollar champagne, there's a difference between high-quality creatine and inferior-grade creatine. Traditionally, Chinese creatine is a lower quality product, with more contaminants such as creatinine, sodium, dicyandiamide, and dihydrotriazine. German creatine, from companies such as SKW (Creapure™), are cleaner, purer products.

    9.New Forms Of Creatine Work Better.

    News flash: no form of creatine has been proven in published studies to work better than plain old creatine monohydrate powder. Whether you're spending your extra dollar on effervescent, liquid or chewable creatine, the most important consideration is the creatine. And whether you decide to splurge and buy creatine citrate or creatine phosphate remember one thing: the major clinical studies have been performed on plain creatine monohydrate powder. Numerous studies have also shown that creatine powder is easily assimilated by the body. So unless you've got money to burn, stick with creatine monohydrate powder. Products such as effervescent creatine or creatine chewables offer convenience and a novel way to take plain old creatine powder. For real value, there's no better choice than powder.

    10.Creatine Will Affect By Body'S Anabolic Hormone Function.

    While creatine can boost strength and lean mass, research from the University of Leuven in Belgium has shown that it doesn't not alter anabolic hormone response to training. These hormones included growth hormone, testosterone, and cortisol.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    This research also might suggest that stacking creatine with prohormones or GH secretagogues might be a beneficial.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    11.Creatine Is Ideal For All Athletes.

    Some athletes stand to benefit a great deal, others very little. Athletes who require sudden, high intensity bursts of power and strength are ideal candidates for creatine supplements. These athlete might include powerlifters, bodybuilders, sprinters, football, baseball, and basketball players, and the like. Endurance athletes or those who participate in sports which require steady aerobic output may not benefit from creatine use.

    12.Creatine Must Be Taken At A Specific Time.

    While it has been proven that you can maximize creatine uptake by taking it with a 1:1 ratio of protein to carbs, no real evidence suggests that there's a best time to take creatine. As a supplement, creatine increases your body's pool of creatine. Whether you take it in the morning, afternoon, or evening probably won't make a significant difference. For convenience sake, you might take it with your post-training protein/carb shake.

    13.Cycling Creatine Will Produce Better Results. False.

    There's no significant evidence which shows that cycling creatine is better than taking it continuously.

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    There's no compelling proof which shoes that creatine supplementation in athletes will down-regulate the body's own ability to produce creatine.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    14.You Can Get Enough Creatine From Your Diet.

    The average person gets only about 1g of creatine per day from his diet. When you cook your meals, you also destroy a good part of the creatine found in foods such as beef, cod, salmon, and herring.


    Sources
    Brenner M, et al. The effect of creatine supplementation during resistance training in women. J Strength Cond Res 2000;14(2): 207-213.
    Burke DG, et al. "The effect of 7 days of creatine supplementation on 24-hour urinary creatine excretion. J Strength Cond Res 2001;15(1):59-62.
    Eijnde B, et al. Med Sci Sports Exerc 2001;33:449-453.
    Greenhaff PL, Steenge GR, Simpson EJ. Protein and carbohydrate-induced augmentation of whole body creatine retention in humans. J Appl Physiol 2000;89:1165-71.
    Guerrero-Ontiveros ML, Walliman T. Creatine supplementation I n health and disease. Effects of chronic creatine ingestion in vivo: down-regulation of the expression of creatine transporter isoforms in skeletal muscle. Mol Cell Biochem 1998;184:427-437.
    Poortmans JR, et al. Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes. Med Sci Sports Exer 1999;31(8):1108-1110.
    Poortmans JR, Francaux M. Adverse effects of creatine supplementation. Sports Med 2000;30:155-170.
    Vogel RA, et al. Creatine supplementation: effect on supramaximal exercise performance at two levels of acute hypohydration. J Strength Cond Res 2000;14(2) 214-219.
     
  3. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Laatste nieuwe studies!

    Clin Sci (Lond) 2003 Feb;104(2):153-62 Links

    Effects of creatine loading and prolonged creatine supplementation on body composition, fuel selection, sprint and endurance performance in humans.

    Van Loon LJ, Oosterlaar AM, Hartgens F, Hesselink MK, Snow RJ, Wagenmakers AJ.

    Nutrition and Toxicology Research Institute Maastricht (NUTRIM), Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, The Netherlands.


    Most research on creatine has focused on short-term creatine loading and its effect on high-intensity performance capacity. Some studies have investigated the effect of prolonged creatine use during strength training. However, studies on the effects of prolonged creatine supplementation are lacking. In the present study, we have assessed the effects of both creatine loading and prolonged supplementation on muscle creatine content, body composition, muscle and whole-body oxidative capacity, substrate utilization during submaximal exercise, and on repeated supramaximal sprint, as well as endurance-type time-trial performance on a cycle ergometer. Twenty subjects ingested creatine or a placebo during a 5-day loading period (20 g.day(-1)) after which supplementation was continued for up to 6 weeks (2 g.day(-1)). Creatine loading increased muscle free creatine, creatine phosphate (CrP) and total creatine content ( P <0.05). The subsequent use of a 2 g.day(-1) maintenance dose, as suggested by an American College of Sports Medicine Roundtable, resulted in a decline in both the elevated CrP and total creatine content and maintenance of the free creatine concentration. Both short- and long-term creatine supplementation improved performance during repeated supramaximal sprints on a cycle ergometer. However, whole-body and muscle oxidative capacity, substrate utilization and time-trial performance were not affected. The increase in body mass following creatine loading was maintained after 6 weeks of continued supplementation and accounted for by a corresponding increase in fat-free mass. This study provides definite evidence that prolonged creatine supplementation in humans does not increase muscle or whole-body oxidative capacity and, as such, does not influence substrate utilization or performance during endurance cycling exercise. In addition, our findings suggest that prolonged creatine ingestion induces an increase in fat-free mass.
     
  4. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Creatine vóór training geen effect op prestaties.

    1: J Sports Med Phys Fitness 2002 Sep;42(3):320-9 Related Articles, Books, LinkOut &nbsp;


    Pre-exercise oral creatine ingestion does not improve prolonged intermittent sprint exercise in humans.

    Preen D, Dawson B, Goodman C, Lawrence S, Beilby J, Ching S.

    Department of Human Movement and Exercise Science, The University of Western Australia, Crawley, Australia.

    BACKGROUND: This investigation determined whether pre-exercise oral Cr ingestion could enhance prolonged intermittent sprint exercise performance. METHODS: Experimental design: a randomised, double-blind crossover design was employed. Setting: testing was performed at the Western Australian Institute of Sport and participants were monitored and treated by both scientific and medical personnel. Participants: eight active, but not well-trained males with a background in multiple-sprint based sports acted as subjects for this investigation. Interventions: subjects ingested either 15 g Cr.H2O or placebo 120 min and 60 min prior to the start of an 80-min maximal sprint cycling task (10 sets of multiple 6-sec sprints with varying active recoveries). Subjects were retested 14 days later, being required to ingest the alternate supplement and repeat the exercise test. Measures: performance variables (work done and peak power) were obtained throughout the exercise challenge. Muscle biopsies (vastus lateralis) were taken preexercise as well as immediately and 3 min post-exercise in order to determine concentrations of ATP, PCr, Cr, La- and glycogen. Venous blood was drawn prior to and on four occasions during the exercise test, and analysed for Cr, NH3+, La- and pH. RESULTS: Serum Cr concentrations were raised to a peak of 2348+/-223 mmol x l-1 prior to the commencement of exercise after Cr ingestion. There were no significant changes in any cycling performance parameters following Cr ingestion, although blood La- was significantly lower (p<0.05) than placebo at all time points during exercise, and plasma NH3+ accumulation was also significantly reduced (p<0.05) in the Cr condition, but only in the second half of the 80-min exercise test. Muscle ATP and TCr levels as well as postexercise PCr replenishment were unaffected following Cr administration. CONCLUSIONS: The data suggest that although the pre-exercise ingestion of a large Cr dose was shown to have some impact on blood borne metabolites, it does not improve maximal prolonged intermittent sprint exercise performance, possibly due to an insufficient time allowed for uptake of serum Cr by skeletal muscle to occur. Therefore, this form of loading does not provide an alternative method of Cr supplementation to the traditional five-day supplementation regimes established by previous research.

    PMID: 12094123
     
  5. Alfadhir heitir

    Alfadhir heitir Senior Moderator Super Mod +15 jaar member

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    Creatine combinatie's

    Creatine Combinations
    by Tomi Nieminen and John M Berardi

    Rendezvous

    “It’s five o’clock already?” I asked no one. “Who practices at this time?” Well, for some reason or another, rowers do. And we know this because we work with several rowing teams here in Ontario, Canada. And it is not only rowers who greet the dawn head on. We also know quite a few bodybuilders who have lives outside the gym. They rise while most of us are still in bed dreaming about the girl from Horny Goat Weed ads.

    If you start your day in the very early hours you probably have only one friend. And his name is Mr. Coffee. If you work out, take supplements and spend enough time drinking Mr. Coffee, you’ll eventually hear something to the effect of, “Hey, aren’t you taking creatine? You shouldn’t be drinking coffee”. “I shouldn’t?” you ask. “No. I heard that the coffee somehow interferes with absorption of creatine”. But I love my coffee. Does caffeine really cancel out the benefits of creatine supplementation? This is a good question – one this article intends to answer.

    Creatine and Caffeine: The Forbidden Combination?

    This issue has been discussed extensively in both athletic and scientific communities. However, most people don’t even know why such a debate exists. But first, how about we review some history?

    The creatine / caffeine debate started about four years ago when one scientific study concluded that “caffeine counteracts the effects of a creatine loaded muscle” (1). This statement was shocking. After all, the purpose of the study was to determine if the two agents could work together to increase exercise performance, not if they would interfere with each other! Researchers and athletes have long known that caffeine and creatine independently improves performance, so combining the two seems logical, right?

    Creatine works on the phosphocreatine and ATP systems, while possibly buffering exercise produced hydrogen protons (acid). Caffeine demonstrates a powerful stimulation for the release of epinephrine. So, theoretically, one could take both to gain more of an athletic edge. But the study in question showed that perhaps they don’t work well together. Further, it showed that maybe they actually interfere with each other. If caffeine does counteract the effect of a creatine-loaded muscle, then there is no debate. The answer? Avoid caffeine if you want your creatine to work

    But it’s not this simple. And though some avoid the creatine / caffeine combo like the plague, we don’t think it’s necessary. So, while you’re here, grab a cup of coffee, add your creatine and read on.

    A Study Is Only As Good As Its Design

    Some glaring problems are evident with the study in question. And these problems explain our mistrust of the conclusions. First, the study utilized a crossover design. In a crossover design, one group takes creatine and then switches to a placebo a few weeks later. The other group does the opposite. During each treatment performance tests are done. This design is fine in most cases because researchers don’t need to compare two different groups. Researchers can compare the same athletes (on creatine) to themselves (on placebo) a few weeks later.

    When a supplement has lasting effects, however, a long period has to separate treatments. If not, the effects of creatine will still be around when the subjects are using a placebo. And that’s the problem. The researchers only allowed three weeks between creatine / caffeine and placebo. We know this is too short a time to allow the study participant to “return to normal”.

    Subsequent studies have shown the “washout” period for creatine supplementation is, minimal, four weeks. It may be much longer. So one of the take-home messages is that creatine, once loaded into the muscle, takes about four to six weeks – or more – to be eliminated (2). If this is the case, we hope you realize that since performance tests were conducted, the treatments could have affected both testing periods. This is a great way to ensure that data from a study is, probably, meaningless.

    Another important factor to consider is diet. Creatine-containing foods, like steak and fish, may provide enough creatine to maintain your initial loading. After you load for a week, you may be able to maintain a creatine-loaded state with diet alone. Most have heard of “maintenance doses” of creatine that usually consist of around five grams per day. These may be unnecessary. Since the combination of a typical non-vegetarian diet and your natural production of creatine provide about two grams each day, you only need an additional two or three grams from food to stay loaded. Research shows that diets high in red meat (1.5 or 2 pounds each day) can provide this (2). But, just to be safe, we typically recommend “reloading” every few months as you may lose that super-loaded state over time.

    Getting back to science, if subjects remain loaded by dietary means, a crossover study might never give good results. A further example of this is evident in another creatine and caffeine study in scientific literature (3). This crossover study also showed no performance differences between groups that took creatine and caffeine together and those on placebo. But again, the washout problem rears its head. This particular study only utilized a one-week washout period between the subject crossovers. We cannot really gain any information from this study in terms of creatine and caffeine interactions. This short washout, again, may have allowed the subjects to be creatine loaded throughout the testing, even when they were performing as the placebo group.

    Although these two studies run counter to our advice to load your coffee up with creatine powder, you can see that a study is only as good as its design. In addition, our argument gains support from the following: In both studies, the loading of muscle with creatine was not hindered by caffeine ingestion. So if the muscle is loaded with creatine, then it should be able to perform like other creatine-loaded muscles, right? The only limiting factor is the study design.

    An argument can be made that perhaps the coffee caused diuresis (water loss), and that inhibited performance gain. Since it is well know that dehydrated muscles perform poorly and have lower protein synthetic rates, maybe the coffee negated the effects of creatine due to dehydration (4). But because there is no data on this, it is merely speculation. Do you find yourself being constantly dehydrated when you consume coffee? If the answer is no, then you know you are okay on this point.

    The debate may seem even at this point, but keep reading. In many prior studies showing creatine does better performance and increase muscle mass, creatine was administered with…you guessed it…coffee or tea! Since creatine is hard to dissolve in room-temperature beverages, researchers had been serving creatine in warm coffee and tea to ensure dissolution of the powder and to mask taste. This dissolution also makes taking creatine orally easier on subjects’ digestive systems. Since there was a demonstrated effect of creatine in these studies, the coffee must not have hindered the effects of the creatine. And although we are fairly convinced coffee does not lead to a huge reduction in the effectiveness of creatine supplementation, we have decided to do a definitive study.

    In collaboration with lab mates and lab director at the University of Western Ontario, we plan to look at the effects of creatine, creatine plus caffeine, creatine plus coffee, and placebo. This study should, uh, dissolve this debate, once and for all. Until the final results are in we won’t be kicking Mr. Coffee out of our lives just yet.

    Creatine – Potent Combinations

    The first part of this article focused on the fact that taking creatine and caffeine together probably won’t negatively affect the benefits of creatine. Now we want to talk about what can be combined with creatine to promote even greater gains. Since its introduction, creatine popularity has surged. Even with minor discomforts associated with powdered creatine monohydrate use such as gas, abdominal distention and diarrhea, many athletes still take creatine for its muscle building and performance-enhancing effects. But what if there was a way to decrease this discomfort? The answer may lie in different creatine combinations.

    Another issue with creatine supplementation is that some individuals respond well, while others do not. This may have something to do with initial creatine levels when starting a creatine cycle, or with enhanced or impaired creatine uptake in certain people. So what if there was a way to increase creatine uptake into the muscle to potentially enhance uptake in both responders and non-responders? Again, creatine combinations may take care of this as well.

    Creatine and Solubility

    You are probably aware that dissolving creatine in regular fluid is rather difficult. You’re more likely to fit an elephant through a keyhole. As a result of this poor solubility, when the creatine gets to your gastrointestinal tract, the body tries to solubilize it. Why? Because nutrients cannot be absorbed if not solubilized or dissolved in a solution. They will just sit around in the pit of your stomach and eventually pass right out. So what the body does to remedy this is to suck fluids out of cells of the digestive organs. But then all this fluid that’s sucked into the GI tract needs to quickly be eliminated, and this leads to diarrhea.

    So what are some solutions? The first is to dissolve your creatine in a warm beverage. Due to the laws of thermodynamics, the creatine is then solubilized and can be absorbed much more effectively without the GI distress. This is where the creatine / coffee debate started, as most just dumped creatine into coffee for convenience. Warm coffee, tea, or even just warm water, will do just fine.

    The second solution is liquid creatine. Many companies have developed liquid creatine products that contain some type of glycerin or carbohydrate-like substance to solubilize the creatine. And although there is no data to support that these products are better than regular creatine, theoretically they could aid absorption. This would allow for less GI stress and, ultimately, lower doses. Theoretically this does make sense. But creatine tends to be unstable in liquid if suspended for too long. Creatine can react with the water molecules to degrade into creatinine, a useless metabolite that is simply excreted from the body.

    With all the brilliant chemists in this industry, we are certain this problem can be solved. In fact, we’ve seen some yet-unpublished data to suggest there are quite a few liquid creatine products that remain stable in solution for long periods of time. Try only liquid creatine products from reputable companies.

    The Insulin / Creatine Connection

    Insulin is not necessary for creatine uptake, but supraphysiologic hyperinsulinemia (high blood insulin) can help drive more creatine into muscle. But remember, we said that these levels have to be supraphysiologic. So just a little jump in insulin probably won’t help. You need a massive influx of insulin. How can this be achieved?

    There are a few ways to spike insulin. The first is to simply eat lots of carbohydrates. In the original studies, a whopping dose of 93 grams of glucose was used to jack insulin levels way up into the supraphysiologic range and increase creatine uptake into the muscle (5). That is a lot of sugar. But that’s what it took to enhance the creatine uptake. So if you’re taking in less in an attempt to increase creatine uptake, or your carbs have a low glycemic index, you’re probably not getting insulin levels high enough to make a difference.

    We don’t know about you, but 93 grams of sugar is a bit too much for us. Especially when taken multiple times each day during the loading phase. So should this concept be abandoned? No way. There are other ways to get insulin levels high enough. It is well known that a meal containing carbohydrates and protein generates a much better insulin response than carbohydrates alone. How much better? Well, although it depends on the protein and carb sources, it appears that while 100 grams of carbs leads to a 300-500 percent increase in blood insulin, and 64 grams of protein leads to a 100-200 percent increase in blood insulin, a combination leads to a 600-800 percent increase (6,7). Now that’s supraphysiologic! So it appears a protein / carbohydrate combo may be best for increasing blood insulin.

    A recent study confirms that a meal containing 50 grams of protein and 50 grams of carbs can lead to identical increases in insulin and creatine uptake as 100 grams of carbs ( The beauty of this strategy is that you don’t have to consume as much sugar if protein is part of the meal. )

    Another strategy for increasing insulin release, and therefore creatine uptake, while at the same time minimizing the need for huge meals, would be to incorporate specific amino acids or insulin secretagogues into your meal. Although this is beyond the scope of this article, several studies have shown that the inclusion of insulin secretagogues can lead to huge increases in insulin. In one study, athletes consuming 168 grams of carbs in 60 minutes had insulin increases of about 900 percent, while athletes consuming 112 grams of carbs, 56 grams of protein and a few specific insulin secretory amino acids had insulin increases of about 1700 percent (9). That’s almost double an already supraphysiological level of insulin!

    The point of discussing this research is not to recommend the consumption of hundreds of grams of carbs and protein in hopes to enhance creatine uptake. Rather, the point is to recognize that a combination product containing moderate amounts of protein, carbs, and certain insulin stimulatory nutrients, may be the future of creatine uptake technology.

    Making Your Creatine Work For You

    There are a number of ways to get the most from your creatine supplementation. By minimizing discomfort and maximizing uptake one can make a great supplement even better. Creatine alone can increase muscle mass, muscle strength and athletic performance. The inclusion of carbs and protein with your creatine may lead to even greater benefits. In addition, the use of liquid creatine may allow for lower effective doses of creatine and a much more pleasant intestinal experience.

    And by the way, don’t let Mr. Coffee disappear from the cupboard while cycling creatine. That’s no way to treat an old friend. Bottoms up!


    References:
    Vandenberghe et al. J Appl Physiol. 80(2):452-7; 1996
    Ziegenfuss et al. Performance benefits following a five-day creatine loading procedure persists for at least four weeks. Abstract presented at ACSM 1998.
    Vanakoski et al, Int J Clin Pharmacol Ther. 36(5):258-62; 1998
    Barr, Can J Appl Physiol. 24(2):164-72; 1999
    Green et al. Am J Physiol. 271(5 Pt 1):E821-6; 1996
    Rabinowitz et al, Lancet. 2: 454-456; 1966
    Pallotta et al, Metabolism. 17: 901-908; 1968
    Steenge et al. J Appl Physiol. 89(3):1165-71; 2000
    Van Loon et al, American Journal of Clincial Nutrition. 72:106-111; 2000
     
  6. eq_909

    eq_909 Huge Freak +10 jaar member

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    Interressant artikel!

    Dus als ik het goed begrijp kan je het beste na je training wat creatine in je dextrose/whey shake doen voor maximale opname.

    :D gelukkig maar, want I love a cup of coffee
     
  7. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Ben nog niet overtuigt wat de koffie aangaat, ze proberen de studie in kwestie wel af te kraken, maar de imo zwakke argumenten daarbij zijn vooral speculatie en niet echt relevant.
    Ik zie geen reden om de studie van '96 als onbetrouwbaar te bestempelen. Ze hebben het wel over een nieuwe studie, daar ben ik wel benieuwd naar.
     
  8. frietbakker

    frietbakker Ripped Bodybuilder +15 jaar member

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    Er is welgeteld 1 studie die aangeeft dat caffeine slecht is voor creatine opname... er zijn er honderden die anders aantonen.

    heb ik mij laten vertellen hoor.... :rolleyes:

    Maar ik geloof de persoon in kwestie wel, die heeft echt toegang tot alle onderzoeken in de hele wereld.
     
  9. Mixer

    Mixer Dutch Bodybuilder +15 jaar member

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    Het is al langer bekend dat je creatine het best inneemt met dextrose.
    Puur druivensap kan ook.
    En na de training.
    Ook veel water drinken is aangewezen .
    hij beweerde zelfs dat hij atleten had die creatine volgens zijn methode innamen en een winst boekte van 6 kg in een maand tijd .
     
  10. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Dan heb je die studie niet goed begrepen. Het ging niet over de opname, die was net hetzelfde. Het ging erom dat caffeine het effect teniet doet dat creatine heeft. Er zijn geen andere studies die kunnen aantonen dat dit niet zo is. Het blijft dus een vraagstuk tot er andere studies zijn die meer klaarheid brengen.
     
  11. frietbakker

    frietbakker Ripped Bodybuilder +15 jaar member

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    Het is pas 1x bewezen, in altijd zijn er ook nog geen andere studies gekomen die die studie bevestigen. Wat zeker wel gebeurt als men twijfelt aan een studie.
     
  12. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Ik bedoel maar, je durft er je hand niet voor in het vuur te steken. Er zijn sterke aanwijzingen dat de combi kan, maar toch ben ik nog niet 100% overtuigt met de huidige gegevens.
     
  13. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Ok ben me in dat artikel in de link van 3XL gaan verdiepen en heb verder alle onderzoek hierover nagecheckt. Eerst over het artikel:

    In deel 1 van hun argumentatie gaat het over het design van de crea-caf studie, maar ik zie de relevantie niet echt van wat ze erover zeggen, in deel 2 hebben ze het over een eigen studie, maar verder lees je er niets over. Is die studie nu uitgevoerd of niet, en waar kunnen we die lezen? maw, artikel biedt helemaal geen uitsluitsel in mijn ogen. Toch ga ik eens op zoek naar meer over dit onderwerp.

    Voor geïnteresseerden dit is het compleet artikel van het onderzoek dat ter discussie staat (adobe reader nodig): Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading.

    En laten we niet vergeten dat het doel van de onderzoekers in deze studie juist wat om na te gaan over de combinatie synergetisch zou werken. Het is bovendien niet gesponsord door een supplementenhandelaar, en het resultaat is ook niet positief voor de handelaars, wat de geloofwaardigheid allemaal ten goede komt.
     
  14. FLX

    FLX Freaky Bodybuilder +10 jaar member

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  15. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Vreemd kon er zo bij, heb het als bijlage toegevoegd (1.6 MB):
     
  16. Big-T

    Big-T Administrator Admin Founder - R.I.P. Topic Starter

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    Studie uit 2002:

    Caffeine verlengt rusttijd van spieren en werkt zo creatine tegen:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...Retrieve&dopt=abstractplus&list_uids=11796658


    En 1 van 2003:

    Caffeïne verzwakt energiebalans in spier:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...uids=12929196&query_hl=37&itool=pubmed_docsum



    Maar caffeine is wel ergogeen NA een kuur met creatine:

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/...uids=12439084&query_hl=37&itool=pubmed_docsum

    Met andere woorden: creatine en caffeine kuurtjes afwisselen werkt het best.
     
  17. FLX

    FLX Freaky Bodybuilder +10 jaar member

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    Vette shit T, goede vondst.
     
  18. m44

    m44 Advanced Bodybuilder +10 jaar member

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    hallo,
    Ik ben enkele dagen geleden begonnen met creatine en wil graag weten of je dit kunt combineren met een eiwitshake of een maaltijd, omdat ik al zo regelmatig koffie drink word het anders wel lastig inpassen. Is het tevens nuttig om creatine voor het slapen gaan te nemen.
     
  19. Corijn

    Corijn Cool Novice +10 jaar member

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    Wat bedoel je juist met dat combineren? Hoeveel keer neem je je creatine in per dag? Persoonlijk heb ik nooit creatine ingenomen voor ik ga slapen en ken niemand dat dit ook al gedaan heeft? Mss hier iemand met advies daarover?

    Dus normaal ben je nu in een oplaadfase (mony)? Of gebruik je de speciale transportsystemen van creatine???

    Zou toch de koffie laten als je met creatine bezig bent...
     
  20. m44

    m44 Advanced Bodybuilder +10 jaar member

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    Ik bedoel een schep creatine door je eiwitshake heen gooien.
    Ik zit in een opbouw schema en gebruik nu zo'n 5g per keer 3 a 4 x per dag
    op de bus staat dat je een laatste dosering neemt voor het slapen gaan en dus doe ik dat maar.
    Ook combineren met je maaltijd dus tijdens of vlak ervoor enz. Normaal neem ik de creatine uit een ons rosbief toch ook wel op lijkt me.
    Koffie laten!! grapje zeker.
    Bedankt voor de reactie
     
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