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Sticky Overzicht van nootropics

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DiZoR zei:
Iemand?
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ALCAR 500mg + alpha lipoic acid 200-250mg (best de R-isomeer)

Lijkt erg veel op mijn stack verder :) ( die best veel gebruikt word met succes hier )

Ik zelf voeg nog wel eens oxi of prami toe voor net dat beetje extra, of sulbutiamine / L-theanine / picamilon
 
Laatst bewerkt:
4-FA nie goed?

Musculo zei:
16,00/g, goodluck :cool:
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Ja en ik ging ffe zoeken en kwam dit tegen en dacht hmm een hele kilo :P

"Hello everyone,

Look I'm posting here as an pharmacologist and bioinformatics researcher to WARN you guys that you are putting yourselves at risk by consuming halogenated amphetamines, which are increasingly sold as Research Chemicals (RCs). The main substances in question I refer to are known as 2-FA, 3-FA, and 4-FA -- in particular, I am warning about 4-FA.

Some of you know there is a risk of neurotoxicity with compounds such as 4-FA, and choose do consume these substances anyway with informed consent. That's fine. As long as you know there is a risk of brain damage (with the risk level unknown), and you accept that risk , then go ahead.

I am writing to those young people, without the wisdom of age or a background in pharmacology or chemistry, are are just starting in research chemicals (RCs) who do not understand or are unaware that the risk profile of halogenated amphetamines (2-FA, 3-FA, 4-FA, etc) is MUCH DIFFERENT than older research chemicals with a relatively safe track record (2C-I , etc).

MDMA and 2C-I etc are relatively safe when used in moderation, and CANNOT be compared to compounds such as 4-FA. Yes, MDMA has a risk of neurotoxicity, but when used in moderation (a few times a year) that risk is relatively low. 4-FA has a MUCH MUCH higher risk.

Here is why you are at risk if you consume halogenated amphetamines.
1) Amphetamine is ALREADY neurotoxic due to the formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the brain [1]. The neurotoxicity is dose-dependent and duration dependent. If you are on a low-dose Adderall prescription for a couple of years, this is certainly safer than someone who is consuming 1g of methamphetamine a day for a couple of years, but in both cases there is a risk.

[1] Prostaglandin H synthase-catalyzed bioactivation of amphetamines to free radical intermediates that cause CNS regional DNA oxidation and nerve terminal degeneration
http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/6/638.short

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Racemic Amphetamine (low-to-moderate neurotoxicity)

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Racemic Methamphetamine (moderate-to-high neurotoxicity)

So listen: Read the link above [1]. Just by consuming amphetamines (especially methamphetamine), you are putting your brain at risk due to the formation of ROS via Prostaglandin H. The impact of amphetamine neurotoxicity be reduced by pre-treating yourself with approximately 500mg of aspirin for every 5mg-10mg of amphetamine, up to a maximum of approx. 4g of aspirin per day. Read the study I linked for more info.

The risk with regular amphetamine is there, it exists in rats, but there are additional significant risks with compounds like 2-FA, 3-FA , and 4-FA...

On to the really toxic stuff, the HALOGENATED AMPHETAMINES. ...

2) Halogenated amphetamines (the Research Chemicals) such as 2-FA, 3-FA, and 4-FA inherit risk profile of dextroamphetamine and methamphetamine above(with low to high neurotoxicity risk) well as inherit toxicity profile of a really dangerous and neurotoxic related compound known as para-chloroamphetamine.

Para-chloroamphetamine is used to selectively KILL (yes, kill) serotonin neurons in the brain in labs around the world. It is MUCH more toxic than MDMA or Amphetamine. Let's take a look at what this awful amphetamine analog looks like (4-CA).

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA): Highly toxic to serotonin neurons.

Hmmm... that 4-CA alot like a substance sold by unscrupulous research chemical vendors, out to make a buck on your suffering -- even if they cause you brain damage. Compare the above structure of Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA) to your beloved 4-FA.

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
4-FA: Almost the exact same thing as the highly serotonin-toxic para-chloroamphetamine pictured above. Oh shi0.

Oh, you don't believe me that para-chloroamphetamine is toxic?

Let me quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
[Para-chloroamphetamine, aka. 4-CA] is used as a neurotoxin by neurobiologists to selectively kill serotonergic neurons for research purposes, in the same way that 6-hydroxydopamine is used to kill dopaminergic neurons.[2][3][4][5]

The ONLY different between the research chemical 4-FA and the highly- neurotoxic Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA) is the substitution of a single atom -- a fluorine atom for a chlorine atom.

The Research Chemical 4-FA has a fluorine in a para position on the phenyl group which is VERY CLOSELY RELATED to the highly neurotoxic 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine), which has a chlorine in a para position on the phenyl group.

These compounds are SO SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR that they are considered 'obvious' functional analogs according to U.S. patent law. If you were to patent para-chloroamphetamine for its neurotoxic properties, it is highly likely the U.S. patent office would consider your beloved 4-FA to also have neurotoxic properties (it is 'obvious' to an expert in the field), and would be considered non-patentable.

Given that the ONLY difference between 4-FA and 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine) is the type of halogen atom, it is highly likely that 4-FA retains some of the neurotoxic properties of 4-CA. The nature and scope of the neurotoxicity is up for debate, but the risk is certainly there. And in my opinion the risk is very high. The physical properties of the halogens are just TOO similar (electronegativity, radius, orbital configuration, etc).

In the same way that anyone who has taken 2C-B will say it is VERY SIMILAR to 2C-I (2c-B / 2c-I causes the same body feelings, the same psychedelic effects, etc and the only difference is ONE HALOGEN ATOM and they only really differ in the biological half-life), anyone taking 4-FA is running the risk of the same neurotoxicity present in 4-CA (difference also = ONE HALOGEN ATOM).

Let's take a look at the properties of the HALOGEN SUBSTITUENTS ... they are VERY SIMILAR. If you are taking 4-FA, you might as well be taking para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA).

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]

Electronegativity of fluorine and chlorine are VERY SIMILAR.

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]

Fluorine and Chlorine have the SAME VALENCE ELECTRON CONFIGURATION (as they are in the same column in the periodic table.)

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]

Fluorine and Chlorine have VERY SIMILAR ATOMIC RADII
(look at F- at 136 and Cl- at 181).

Look at the above properties. 4-FA and 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine) are so closely related that they might as well be the same chemical. This is like the difference between the OTC antihistamine Chlorpheniramine vs the OTC antihistimine Brompheniramine. They only differ in biological half-life.

There is a small chance (less than 10%) that 4-FA is safe. But the weight of the evidence points to erring on the side of caution -- we need to assume that halogenated amphetamines are neurotoxic (90% probability) -- and that they are much more neurotoxic than regular amphetamines. The evidence is overwhelming.

Given that 4-FA is ALMOST IDENTICAL to the highly neurotoxic 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine), differing by ONLY ONE ATOM,

Do you really want to take that risk with your brain?


---

P.S.

To users of 4-FA who are concerned:

Okay, so you just read my post, and you believe me. You know that you have taken a risk with your brain, and you want to stop. You don't know how much damage is done (if at all), but you want to get a handle on things and minimize the risk.

What do you do to heal, and to minimize the risk of damage?

1) Stop taking halogenated amphetamines immediately. Do not take them again. You may choose to take regular amphetamines, but halogenated ones are just too risky.

2) Start taking a good multivitamin. Not that Centrum crap. Take a good food-based multivitamin at least 1x / 2x a day from Whole Foods or other organic food store.

3) Eat good diet full of fresh raw foods with fruits and vegetables.

4) Consume melatonin 3-6mg at bedtime each night. This is a powerful mitochondrial antioxidant and promotes brain cell survival during ischemia and other conditions.

5) Consume Acetyl-L-Carnitine at a dose of 2-3gday along side a good source of Omega3 fatty acids. The Acetyl-l-carnitine is a cofactor in the transport of Omega3s and also promotes brain tissue survival as well as regeneration. Consume at least 2-6g Omega3s per day alongside the ALCAR (a mitochondrial cofactor).

Good luck everyone. Please stop taking this 4-FA crap unless you really know what you are doing and have read all the Pubmed literature and made a decision for yourself. Otherwise you are literally playing Russian Roulette with your brain tissue.
 
polo83 zei:
Ja en ik ging ffe zoeken en kwam dit tegen en dacht hmm een hele kilo :P

"Hello everyone,

Look I'm posting here as an pharmacologist and bioinformatics researcher to WARN you guys that you are putting yourselves at risk by consuming halogenated amphetamines, which are increasingly sold as Research Chemicals (RCs). The main substances in question I refer to are known as 2-FA, 3-FA, and 4-FA -- in particular, I am warning about 4-FA.

Some of you know there is a risk of neurotoxicity with compounds such as 4-FA, and choose do consume these substances anyway with informed consent. That's fine. As long as you know there is a risk of brain damage (with the risk level unknown), and you accept that risk , then go ahead.

I am writing to those young people, without the wisdom of age or a background in pharmacology or chemistry, are are just starting in research chemicals (RCs) who do not understand or are unaware that the risk profile of halogenated amphetamines (2-FA, 3-FA, 4-FA, etc) is MUCH DIFFERENT than older research chemicals with a relatively safe track record (2C-I , etc).

MDMA and 2C-I etc are relatively safe when used in moderation, and CANNOT be compared to compounds such as 4-FA. Yes, MDMA has a risk of neurotoxicity, but when used in moderation (a few times a year) that risk is relatively low. 4-FA has a MUCH MUCH higher risk.

Here is why you are at risk if you consume halogenated amphetamines.
1) Amphetamine is ALREADY neurotoxic due to the formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the brain [1]. The neurotoxicity is dose-dependent and duration dependent. If you are on a low-dose Adderall prescription for a couple of years, this is certainly safer than someone who is consuming 1g of methamphetamine a day for a couple of years, but in both cases there is a risk.

[1] Prostaglandin H synthase-catalyzed bioactivation of amphetamines to free radical intermediates that cause CNS regional DNA oxidation and nerve terminal degeneration
http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/6/638.short

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Racemic Amphetamine (low-to-moderate neurotoxicity)

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Racemic Methamphetamine (moderate-to-high neurotoxicity)

So listen: Read the link above [1]. Just by consuming amphetamines (especially methamphetamine), you are putting your brain at risk due to the formation of ROS via Prostaglandin H. The impact of amphetamine neurotoxicity be reduced by pre-treating yourself with approximately 500mg of aspirin for every 5mg-10mg of amphetamine, up to a maximum of approx. 4g of aspirin per day. Read the study I linked for more info.

The risk with regular amphetamine is there, it exists in rats, but there are additional significant risks with compounds like 2-FA, 3-FA , and 4-FA...

On to the really toxic stuff, the HALOGENATED AMPHETAMINES. ...

2) Halogenated amphetamines (the Research Chemicals) such as 2-FA, 3-FA, and 4-FA inherit risk profile of dextroamphetamine and methamphetamine above(with low to high neurotoxicity risk) well as inherit toxicity profile of a really dangerous and neurotoxic related compound known as para-chloroamphetamine.

Para-chloroamphetamine is used to selectively KILL (yes, kill) serotonin neurons in the brain in labs around the world. It is MUCH more toxic than MDMA or Amphetamine. Let's take a look at what this awful amphetamine analog looks like (4-CA).

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA): Highly toxic to serotonin neurons.

Hmmm... that 4-CA alot like a substance sold by unscrupulous research chemical vendors, out to make a buck on your suffering -- even if they cause you brain damage. Compare the above structure of Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA) to your beloved 4-FA.

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
4-FA: Almost the exact same thing as the highly serotonin-toxic para-chloroamphetamine pictured above. Oh shi0.

Oh, you don't believe me that para-chloroamphetamine is toxic?

Let me quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
[Para-chloroamphetamine, aka. 4-CA] is used as a neurotoxin by neurobiologists to selectively kill serotonergic neurons for research purposes, in the same way that 6-hydroxydopamine is used to kill dopaminergic neurons.[2][3][4][5]

The ONLY different between the research chemical 4-FA and the highly- neurotoxic Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA) is the substitution of a single atom -- a fluorine atom for a chlorine atom.

The Research Chemical 4-FA has a fluorine in a para position on the phenyl group which is VERY CLOSELY RELATED to the highly neurotoxic 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine), which has a chlorine in a para position on the phenyl group.

These compounds are SO SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR that they are considered 'obvious' functional analogs according to U.S. patent law. If you were to patent para-chloroamphetamine for its neurotoxic properties, it is highly likely the U.S. patent office would consider your beloved 4-FA to also have neurotoxic properties (it is 'obvious' to an expert in the field), and would be considered non-patentable.

Given that the ONLY difference between 4-FA and 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine) is the type of halogen atom, it is highly likely that 4-FA retains some of the neurotoxic properties of 4-CA. The nature and scope of the neurotoxicity is up for debate, but the risk is certainly there. And in my opinion the risk is very high. The physical properties of the halogens are just TOO similar (electronegativity, radius, orbital configuration, etc).

In the same way that anyone who has taken 2C-B will say it is VERY SIMILAR to 2C-I (2c-B / 2c-I causes the same body feelings, the same psychedelic effects, etc and the only difference is ONE HALOGEN ATOM and they only really differ in the biological half-life), anyone taking 4-FA is running the risk of the same neurotoxicity present in 4-CA (difference also = ONE HALOGEN ATOM).

Let's take a look at the properties of the HALOGEN SUBSTITUENTS ... they are VERY SIMILAR. If you are taking 4-FA, you might as well be taking para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA).

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]

Electronegativity of fluorine and chlorine are VERY SIMILAR.

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]

Fluorine and Chlorine have the SAME VALENCE ELECTRON CONFIGURATION (as they are in the same column in the periodic table.)

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]

Fluorine and Chlorine have VERY SIMILAR ATOMIC RADII
(look at F- at 136 and Cl- at 181).

Look at the above properties. 4-FA and 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine) are so closely related that they might as well be the same chemical. This is like the difference between the OTC antihistamine Chlorpheniramine vs the OTC antihistimine Brompheniramine. They only differ in biological half-life.

There is a small chance (less than 10%) that 4-FA is safe. But the weight of the evidence points to erring on the side of caution -- we need to assume that halogenated amphetamines are neurotoxic (90% probability) -- and that they are much more neurotoxic than regular amphetamines. The evidence is overwhelming.

Given that 4-FA is ALMOST IDENTICAL to the highly neurotoxic 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine), differing by ONLY ONE ATOM,

Do you really want to take that risk with your brain?


---

P.S.

To users of 4-FA who are concerned:

Okay, so you just read my post, and you believe me. You know that you have taken a risk with your brain, and you want to stop. You don't know how much damage is done (if at all), but you want to get a handle on things and minimize the risk.

What do you do to heal, and to minimize the risk of damage?

1) Stop taking halogenated amphetamines immediately. Do not take them again. You may choose to take regular amphetamines, but halogenated ones are just too risky.

2) Start taking a good multivitamin. Not that Centrum crap. Take a good food-based multivitamin at least 1x / 2x a day from Whole Foods or other organic food store.

3) Eat good diet full of fresh raw foods with fruits and vegetables.

4) Consume melatonin 3-6mg at bedtime each night. This is a powerful mitochondrial antioxidant and promotes brain cell survival during ischemia and other conditions.

5) Consume Acetyl-L-Carnitine at a dose of 2-3gday along side a good source of Omega3 fatty acids. The Acetyl-l-carnitine is a cofactor in the transport of Omega3s and also promotes brain tissue survival as well as regeneration. Consume at least 2-6g Omega3s per day alongside the ALCAR (a mitochondrial cofactor).

Good luck everyone. Please stop taking this 4-FA crap unless you really know what you are doing and have read all the Pubmed literature and made a decision for yourself. Otherwise you are literally playing Russian Roulette with your brain tissue.
​
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Klik om te verkleinen...


Is bullshit, is al meerdere keren besproken op meerdere fora en ontkracht dmv relevante onderzoeken ipv suggesties die deze angstzaaier maakt. er van uit gaan dat 4-fa schadelijk is omdat het maar 1 molecuul verschilt met 4-ca is kankerdom en diegene die dit soort claims maak mag zich absoluut geen professional noemen. Ieder molecuul moet apart onderzocht worden, het kan zeker zo zijn dat moleculen die structureel met elkaar overeenkomen soortgelijke eigenschappen bevatten maar dit is GEEN zekerheid.

Dus nogmaals bovenstaande post is niet wetenschappelijk onderbouwd en op bluelight forum met meerdere wetenschappelijke onderzoeken ontkracht door mensen die WEL verstand van zaken hebben.​
 
De lijn tussen drugs en nootropics wordt steeds dunner :o
 
Unstoppable zei:
Is bullshit, is al meerdere keren besproken op meerdere fora en ontkracht dmv relevante onderzoeken ipv suggesties die deze angstzaaier maakt. er van uit gaan dat 4-fa schadelijk is omdat het maar 1 molecuul verschilt met 4-ca is kankerdom en diegene die dit soort claims maak mag zich absoluut geen professional noemen. Ieder molecuul moet apart onderzocht worden, het kan zeker zo zijn dat moleculen die structureel met elkaar overeenkomen soortgelijke eigenschappen bevatten maar dit is GEEN zekerheid.

Dus nogmaals bovenstaande post is niet wetenschappelijk onderbouwd en op bluelight forum met meerdere wetenschappelijke onderzoeken ontkracht door mensen die WEL verstand van zaken hebben.
Klik om te vergroten...
Klik om te verkleinen...

Hij gaat er ook niet vanuit, hij zegt dat de kans groot is. En dat is niet 'kankerdom'. Enige voorzichtigheid bij zoiets dat nog zo slecht onderzocht is, is eerder erg verstandig.
 
Binnenkort ff nootropics bestellen, kan iemand me helpen met keuzes?

4fa voor uitgaan
Nefiracetam voor leren+examens
Sulbutiamine 4 tha lulz.

Alleen die nefiracetam is beetje duur, 30 eu voor 25 gram terwijl sulbutiamine 15 eu voor 30 gram is, zou ik die sulbutiamine ook als nootropic gebruiken voor studeren, examens, mondelingen etc ipv alleen als preworkout booster???
 
Acabist1312 zei:
Binnenkort ff nootropics bestellen, kan iemand me helpen met keuzes?

4fa voor uitgaan
Nefiracetam voor leren+examens
Sulbutiamine 4 tha lulz.

Alleen die nefiracetam is beetje duur, 30 eu voor 25 gram terwijl sulbutiamine 15 eu voor 30 gram is, zou ik die sulbutiamine ook als nootropic gebruiken voor studeren, examens, mondelingen etc ipv alleen als preworkout booster???
Klik om te vergroten...
Klik om te verkleinen...

4fa is geen nootropic, maar een research chemical.

Sulbutiamine verhoogt je motivatie en focus, daarom kun je het prima voor je studie gebruiken. Bij mij treedt er echter wel snel gewenning op, daarom zou ik kiezen voor een racetam. Je moet niet alleen kijken naar de prijs per gram, maar ook naar de grootte van de dosis die je moet nemen.

Nefiracetam gebruik ik alleen tijdens tentamenperiodes vanwege de toxiciteit van deze nootropic. Voor dagelijks gebruik bij je zou ik aniracetam of pramiracetam aanraden icm een cholinebron.
 
LytsePier zei:
4fa is geen nootropic, maar een research chemical.

Sulbutiamine verhoogt je motivatie en focus, daarom kun je het prima voor je studie gebruiken. Bij mij treedt er echter wel snel gewenning op, daarom zou ik kiezen voor een racetam. Je moet niet alleen kijken naar de prijs per gram, maar ook naar de grootte van de dosis die je moet nemen.

Nefiracetam gebruik ik alleen tijdens tentamenperiodes vanwege de toxiciteit van deze nootropic. Voor dagelijks gebruik bij je zou ik aniracetam of pramiracetam aanraden icm een cholinebron.
Klik om te vergroten...
Klik om te verkleinen...

Idd 4fa is een rc, sorry

Zou een week lang nefiracetam een probleem zijn dagelijks? Ivm met toetsweek zegma, of kab ik dan al beter een andere pakken? Aniracetam icm choline, wat in eieren zit toch?

Denk dat een week achterelkaar gebruiken nog niet echt toxische problemen zal hebben of wel? En werken die andere racetams even goed als die nefi? Want dan pak ik gewoon ani

Ben er uit, bestel gewoon 60 gram aniracetam voor 13 euro, en daarnaast een aantal proefmonsters zoals sulbutiamine en nefiracetam en noopept. Denkbeter ftw!
 
Laatst bewerkt:
Wat neem ik het best om:
1) Beter te kunnen focussen (heb geen ADHD maar kan me er gewoon niet toe aanzetten zelfs maar te beginnen studeren)
2) Beter te kunnen onthouden
En dit beide tezamen?
De bedoeling is dat ik het enkel neem wanneer ik vast en zeker ben dat ik moet of ga studeren dus niet elke dag.
Verder vroeg ik me af hoe ik zulke kleine eenheden kan afwegen. Met een gewone keukenweegschaal lukt dit namelijk niet. Kan ik bv. a.d.h.v. een gemiddelde eetlepel afmeten hoeveel bv. 100 mg is?

Ik was van plan piracetam i.c.m. choline te gebruiken maar is pramiracetam niet beter? En wat met sulbutiamine?
Wat is de optimale verhouding pramiracetam/piracetam vs. choline? En waarom is het best dat men choline erbij neemt?
 
Musculo zei:
Inderdaad, al merk ik wel een verhoogde motivatie.
Klik om te vergroten...
Klik om te verkleinen...

Ja, bij speed merk ik ook een verhoogde motivatie, nootropic ftw. Phenibut past niet in het rijtje aniracetam, centro, noopept. Het is gewoon een soort benzo. Desalniettemin, een heel relaxed goedje. :)
 
polo83 zei:
Ja en ik ging ffe zoeken en kwam dit tegen en dacht hmm een hele kilo :P

"Hello everyone,

Look I'm posting here as an pharmacologist and bioinformatics researcher to WARN you guys that you are putting yourselves at risk by consuming halogenated amphetamines, which are increasingly sold as Research Chemicals (RCs). The main substances in question I refer to are known as 2-FA, 3-FA, and 4-FA -- in particular, I am warning about 4-FA.

Some of you know there is a risk of neurotoxicity with compounds such as 4-FA, and choose do consume these substances anyway with informed consent. That's fine. As long as you know there is a risk of brain damage (with the risk level unknown), and you accept that risk , then go ahead.

I am writing to those young people, without the wisdom of age or a background in pharmacology or chemistry, are are just starting in research chemicals (RCs) who do not understand or are unaware that the risk profile of halogenated amphetamines (2-FA, 3-FA, 4-FA, etc) is MUCH DIFFERENT than older research chemicals with a relatively safe track record (2C-I , etc).

MDMA and 2C-I etc are relatively safe when used in moderation, and CANNOT be compared to compounds such as 4-FA. Yes, MDMA has a risk of neurotoxicity, but when used in moderation (a few times a year) that risk is relatively low. 4-FA has a MUCH MUCH higher risk.

Here is why you are at risk if you consume halogenated amphetamines.
1) Amphetamine is ALREADY neurotoxic due to the formation of reactive oxygen species (ROS) in the brain [1]. The neurotoxicity is dose-dependent and duration dependent. If you are on a low-dose Adderall prescription for a couple of years, this is certainly safer than someone who is consuming 1g of methamphetamine a day for a couple of years, but in both cases there is a risk.

[1] Prostaglandin H synthase-catalyzed bioactivation of amphetamines to free radical intermediates that cause CNS regional DNA oxidation and nerve terminal degeneration
http://www.fasebj.org/content/20/6/638.short

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Racemic Amphetamine (low-to-moderate neurotoxicity)

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Racemic Methamphetamine (moderate-to-high neurotoxicity)

So listen: Read the link above [1]. Just by consuming amphetamines (especially methamphetamine), you are putting your brain at risk due to the formation of ROS via Prostaglandin H. The impact of amphetamine neurotoxicity be reduced by pre-treating yourself with approximately 500mg of aspirin for every 5mg-10mg of amphetamine, up to a maximum of approx. 4g of aspirin per day. Read the study I linked for more info.

The risk with regular amphetamine is there, it exists in rats, but there are additional significant risks with compounds like 2-FA, 3-FA , and 4-FA...

On to the really toxic stuff, the HALOGENATED AMPHETAMINES. ...

2) Halogenated amphetamines (the Research Chemicals) such as 2-FA, 3-FA, and 4-FA inherit risk profile of dextroamphetamine and methamphetamine above(with low to high neurotoxicity risk) well as inherit toxicity profile of a really dangerous and neurotoxic related compound known as para-chloroamphetamine.

Para-chloroamphetamine is used to selectively KILL (yes, kill) serotonin neurons in the brain in labs around the world. It is MUCH more toxic than MDMA or Amphetamine. Let's take a look at what this awful amphetamine analog looks like (4-CA).

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA): Highly toxic to serotonin neurons.

Hmmm... that 4-CA alot like a substance sold by unscrupulous research chemical vendors, out to make a buck on your suffering -- even if they cause you brain damage. Compare the above structure of Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA) to your beloved 4-FA.

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]
4-FA: Almost the exact same thing as the highly serotonin-toxic para-chloroamphetamine pictured above. Oh shi0.

Oh, you don't believe me that para-chloroamphetamine is toxic?

Let me quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
[Para-chloroamphetamine, aka. 4-CA] is used as a neurotoxin by neurobiologists to selectively kill serotonergic neurons for research purposes, in the same way that 6-hydroxydopamine is used to kill dopaminergic neurons.[2][3][4][5]

The ONLY different between the research chemical 4-FA and the highly- neurotoxic Para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA) is the substitution of a single atom -- a fluorine atom for a chlorine atom.

The Research Chemical 4-FA has a fluorine in a para position on the phenyl group which is VERY CLOSELY RELATED to the highly neurotoxic 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine), which has a chlorine in a para position on the phenyl group.

These compounds are SO SUBSTANTIALLY SIMILAR that they are considered 'obvious' functional analogs according to U.S. patent law. If you were to patent para-chloroamphetamine for its neurotoxic properties, it is highly likely the U.S. patent office would consider your beloved 4-FA to also have neurotoxic properties (it is 'obvious' to an expert in the field), and would be considered non-patentable.

Given that the ONLY difference between 4-FA and 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine) is the type of halogen atom, it is highly likely that 4-FA retains some of the neurotoxic properties of 4-CA. The nature and scope of the neurotoxicity is up for debate, but the risk is certainly there. And in my opinion the risk is very high. The physical properties of the halogens are just TOO similar (electronegativity, radius, orbital configuration, etc).

In the same way that anyone who has taken 2C-B will say it is VERY SIMILAR to 2C-I (2c-B / 2c-I causes the same body feelings, the same psychedelic effects, etc and the only difference is ONE HALOGEN ATOM and they only really differ in the biological half-life), anyone taking 4-FA is running the risk of the same neurotoxicity present in 4-CA (difference also = ONE HALOGEN ATOM).

Let's take a look at the properties of the HALOGEN SUBSTITUENTS ... they are VERY SIMILAR. If you are taking 4-FA, you might as well be taking para-chloroamphetamine (4-CA).

[Afbeelding niet meer beschikbaar]

Electronegativity of fluorine and chlorine are VERY SIMILAR.

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Fluorine and Chlorine have the SAME VALENCE ELECTRON CONFIGURATION (as they are in the same column in the periodic table.)

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Fluorine and Chlorine have VERY SIMILAR ATOMIC RADII
(look at F- at 136 and Cl- at 181).

Look at the above properties. 4-FA and 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine) are so closely related that they might as well be the same chemical. This is like the difference between the OTC antihistamine Chlorpheniramine vs the OTC antihistimine Brompheniramine. They only differ in biological half-life.

There is a small chance (less than 10%) that 4-FA is safe. But the weight of the evidence points to erring on the side of caution -- we need to assume that halogenated amphetamines are neurotoxic (90% probability) -- and that they are much more neurotoxic than regular amphetamines. The evidence is overwhelming.

Given that 4-FA is ALMOST IDENTICAL to the highly neurotoxic 4-CA (para-chloroamphetamine), differing by ONLY ONE ATOM,

Do you really want to take that risk with your brain?


---

P.S.

To users of 4-FA who are concerned:

Okay, so you just read my post, and you believe me. You know that you have taken a risk with your brain, and you want to stop. You don't know how much damage is done (if at all), but you want to get a handle on things and minimize the risk.

What do you do to heal, and to minimize the risk of damage?

1) Stop taking halogenated amphetamines immediately. Do not take them again. You may choose to take regular amphetamines, but halogenated ones are just too risky.

2) Start taking a good multivitamin. Not that Centrum crap. Take a good food-based multivitamin at least 1x / 2x a day from Whole Foods or other organic food store.

3) Eat good diet full of fresh raw foods with fruits and vegetables.

4) Consume melatonin 3-6mg at bedtime each night. This is a powerful mitochondrial antioxidant and promotes brain cell survival during ischemia and other conditions.

5) Consume Acetyl-L-Carnitine at a dose of 2-3gday along side a good source of Omega3 fatty acids. The Acetyl-l-carnitine is a cofactor in the transport of Omega3s and also promotes brain tissue survival as well as regeneration. Consume at least 2-6g Omega3s per day alongside the ALCAR (a mitochondrial cofactor).

Good luck everyone. Please stop taking this 4-FA crap unless you really know what you are doing and have read all the Pubmed literature and made a decision for yourself. Otherwise you are literally playing Russian Roulette with your brain tissue.
​
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Hmmm goed dat je het hier post. Ik ga even achter die ontkrachting waar Unstoppable het over heeft aan.

Acabist1312 zei:
Idd 4fa is een rc, sorry

Zou een week lang nefiracetam een probleem zijn dagelijks? Ivm met toetsweek zegma, of kab ik dan al beter een andere pakken? Aniracetam icm choline, wat in eieren zit toch?

Denk dat een week achterelkaar gebruiken nog niet echt toxische problemen zal hebben of wel? En werken die andere racetams even goed als die nefi? Want dan pak ik gewoon ani

Ben er uit, bestel gewoon 60 gram aniracetam voor 13 euro, en daarnaast een aantal proefmonsters zoals sulbutiamine en nefiracetam en noopept. Denkbeter ftw!
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Je kunt er van uitgaan dat nootropics geen schade toebrengen.​
 
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LytsePier zei:
Ja, is dat ook met nefiracetam zo? Ik weet dat die hondenstudie geen ultiem bewijs is voor de schadelijkheid van nefiracetam, maar ik ken ook geen bron die het tegendeel bewijst.
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Oh woops, daar had ik overheen gelezen. Nefiracetam schijnt wel schadelijk te zijn ja :)
 
600mg pramiracetam gedropt, geen effect, uur of twee later een gram sulbutiamine erin en naar de sportschool, ook niks :mad: reageer btw ook niet op craze en white flood preworkouts. Maar dat kan geen vervand met elkaar houden toch?

Heb er op gelet de sulbutiamine met vet in te nemen. Maag was in beide gevallen niet helemaal nuchter, was dat t misschien?

Jammer

Edit: om half 8 heb ik ong 150-200mg phenibut gesnoven en 300mg in bommetje genomen. Uurtje later halve gram hasj gerookt. Voel de phenibut nu enigzins heb ik t idee, beetje opgetogen, blij, comfortabel etc. Hele lichte euforie kan je t bijna noemen. Wel chill

Peace out
 
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