my point exactly.
Ligt een 1rm stricte deadlift lager dan een slecht uitgevoerde?
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my point exactly.
hendrikjagersma
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Haha, clown.
maurice86
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Sorry, maar dit klopt echt niet.
[Link niet meer beschikbaar]
Miss Deadlift
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welk niveau? Maar je theorie is interessant.Zwakke erector spinae kan ik inkomen maar de hamstrings hebben toch niets met het rechthouden van je rug te maken ? Of wel?
Persoonlijk zou ik denken aan een te zwakke core,als je je max benadert zal nl het zwakste punt het eerste opgeven en als dat inhoudt dat je je rug niet recht kunt houden bij een bepaald gewicht maar het gewicht dan wel trekt dan denk ik dus als eerste daar aan.
Maar het kan ook komen door te twijfelachtig trekken (heb ik zelf wel eens last van) als je tijdens de aanzet twijfelt kun je wat spanning verliezen en daardoor krom gaan staan en als dan blijkt dat het gewicht toch omhoogkomt dan sta je daar met dat gewicht dat dan toch wel weer wat zwaar is om nog recht te gaan staan als je eenmaal krom staat...
hendrikjagersma
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Met je klachten over bodyfat door je somatotypering pas je toch al beter thuis in het chat en convo forum, dus houd je je daar ook maar beter bij. Doei.
Als je hamstrings zwak zijn is een achterovergekanteld bekken bij dergelijke bewegingen biomechanisch gezien gunstiger. Dit heeft in een conventional deadlift/good morning etc als gevolg dat je onderrug moetbollen, omdat je bovenlichaam anders simpelweg niet laag genoeg komt om het onderste deel van de rom te behalen.
Verder kan het gewoon aan zwakke erectors liggen idd.
hoe zielig kan je zijn 
Wat maurice zegt klopt wel... voor lichtere lifters.
Schouders achter de bar houden is iets voor zware lifters die hun lichaamsgewicht kunne gebruike als hefboom. Een lichtere lifter heeft dit voordeel niet, daarmee scapula over de bar als je een lichtere lifter bent.
chunky
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Dat zou kunnen, had ik nog niet aangedacht.
Naja als je altijd met bolle rug gaat liften dan zal je rug dat uiteindelijk niet waarderen.
black rush
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Techniek blijft imo het belangrijkste.
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INTRODUCTORY NOTE
For newcomers to this forum, these P&Ps are Propositions, not facts or
dogmatic proclamations. They are intended to stimulate interaction among
users working in different fields, to re-examine traditional concepts, foster
distance education, question our beliefs and suggest new lines of research or
approaches to training. We look forward to responses from anyone who has
views or relevant information on the topics.
PP 109: Rigid adherence to the advice to lift with the lumbar spine 'flat'
or in mild extension may not always mandatory or necessary.
THE PROBLEM
Back pain and disability, particularly of the lumbar spine, has long been
associated with faulty lifting technique. Both epidemiologically and in
terms of biomechanical analysis, it would appear that lumbar flexion under
loading poses special risks to the intervertebral discs, so it is generally
advised that we avoid lifting with forward lumbar flexion, particularly if
this is combined with trunk rotation or lateral flexion.
This seems to be supported by studies which show that approximately 8% of
injuries to Olympic weightlifters involve the lumbar spine, whereas this
figure is over 25% for Powerlifters. The greater incidence of lumbar injury
among powerlifters may be due to the fact that the deadlift often produces a
greater degree of spinal flexion during the initial pulling stage from the
platform. Although biomechanical analysis shows that the greater
accelerations of the explosive stages of the Olympic lifts can produce
greater forces than those encountered in powerlifting, these forces do not
occur in the early stages of the lift when the lumbar spine is at its most
vulnerable.
However, if one studies sagittal plane photographic or video sequences of
some of the world's top weightlifters, it will be noticed that a significant
number of these highly experienced lifters display varying degrees of mild
spinal flexion during the initial stage of the pull in both of the Olympic
lifts.
In fact, Russian biomechanists paid great attention to the lifting technique
of the Bulgarian former World and Olympic 75kg champion, Mitkov, whose early
lifting phases were all executed with a rounded back. It was concluded that
he actually used the 'rolling backwards' or straightening of the lumbar spine
to impart greater upward momentum for the explosive second pull of the lifts.
Interestingly, his style of pulling produced a maximum pulling velocity of 2m
per second in the snatch (with 150kg), second only to that of the great
superheavy, Zhabotinsky (2.06m/sec), whose pull (with 175kg) was also
executed with mild lumbar flexion.
The Bulgarian, Christov, who also lifted with some lumbar flexion produced a
high maximum pulling velocity in the snatch with 180kg in the 110kg division
(1.89m/sec).In the clean, Alexeyev produced one of the highest maximum
pulling velocities (1.8m per sec with a load of 242.5kg), followed by
Zhabotinsky (1.76m per sec with 207.5kg). Once again, both of these lifters
began their pulls with a degree of spinal flexion. None of the lifters using
mild lumbar flexion during heavy lifts displayed any greater incidence of
spinal injury compared with their colleagues.
In other words, it seems that the advice always to lift with a flat or mildly
extended lumbar spine may not be accurate or suitable for everyone. Other
studies of the lifting technique of the 'rounded back' lifters mentioned
above did not reveal that their technique was faulty, but merely an
individual characteristic.Anatomically, we know that deliberate attempts to
extend the lumbar spine may result in a relative decrease in the tension of
the posterior ligaments of the spine, while inadequate muscular contraction
of the erector spinae muscle group may lead to relative increase of tension
in these ligaments.
It seems as if a balance between the tensions in the muscular corset of the
trunk and the associated ligaments offers the optimal way of lifting heavy
loads from the ground, rather than a dogmatic insistence on a flat or mildly
extended lower back. Just as there are genetic differences in other aspects
of musculoskeletal structure and function, so there may be similar
differences which relate to the muscles responsible for stabilising the body
while lifting.
This implies that the role of the coach, trainer or therapist should be to
determine exactly which individual patterns of muscle involvement and joint
movement should be used by a given person, a skill which is probably more
commonly understood among top weightlifting coaches than elsewhere else. (I
have found that use of a lifting belt, contrary to belief among some
trainers, can offer an excellent kinaesthetic way of imparting safe lifting
technique which establishes the optimal balance between muscular activation
and ligamentous tension). It also implies that rigid formulae for lifting
need to be seriously questioned - after all, mild spinal flexion may offer
some individuals a safer, more effective lifting technique than a 'flat'
back. Again, the principle of individualisation seems to remain inescapable.
What do other group members think about current lifting advice? Do we
persist with rigid 'flat back' rules or do we permit greater flexibility of
approach to account for individual idiosyncrasies? What about the evidence
that some highly successful lifters raise very heavy loads while using
definite spinal flexion? (I have not touched on this, but it is not unusual
to observe some top powerlifters also lifting safely with rounded backs - my
powerlifting colleagues might like to comment on this).
-----------------
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
For newcomers to this forum, these P&Ps are Propositions, not facts or
dogmatic proclamations. They are intended to stimulate interaction among
users working in different fields, to re-examine traditional concepts, foster
distance education, question our beliefs and suggest new lines of research or
approaches to training. We look forward to responses from anyone who has
views or relevant information on the topics.
PP 109: Rigid adherence to the advice to lift with the lumbar spine 'flat'
or in mild extension may not always mandatory or necessary.
THE PROBLEM
Back pain and disability, particularly of the lumbar spine, has long been
associated with faulty lifting technique. Both epidemiologically and in
terms of biomechanical analysis, it would appear that lumbar flexion under
loading poses special risks to the intervertebral discs, so it is generally
advised that we avoid lifting with forward lumbar flexion, particularly if
this is combined with trunk rotation or lateral flexion.
This seems to be supported by studies which show that approximately 8% of
injuries to Olympic weightlifters involve the lumbar spine, whereas this
figure is over 25% for Powerlifters. The greater incidence of lumbar injury
among powerlifters may be due to the fact that the deadlift often produces a
greater degree of spinal flexion during the initial pulling stage from the
platform. Although biomechanical analysis shows that the greater
accelerations of the explosive stages of the Olympic lifts can produce
greater forces than those encountered in powerlifting, these forces do not
occur in the early stages of the lift when the lumbar spine is at its most
vulnerable.
However, if one studies sagittal plane photographic or video sequences of
some of the world's top weightlifters, it will be noticed that a significant
number of these highly experienced lifters display varying degrees of mild
spinal flexion during the initial stage of the pull in both of the Olympic
lifts.
In fact, Russian biomechanists paid great attention to the lifting technique
of the Bulgarian former World and Olympic 75kg champion, Mitkov, whose early
lifting phases were all executed with a rounded back. It was concluded that
he actually used the 'rolling backwards' or straightening of the lumbar spine
to impart greater upward momentum for the explosive second pull of the lifts.
Interestingly, his style of pulling produced a maximum pulling velocity of 2m
per second in the snatch (with 150kg), second only to that of the great
superheavy, Zhabotinsky (2.06m/sec), whose pull (with 175kg) was also
executed with mild lumbar flexion.
The Bulgarian, Christov, who also lifted with some lumbar flexion produced a
high maximum pulling velocity in the snatch with 180kg in the 110kg division
(1.89m/sec).In the clean, Alexeyev produced one of the highest maximum
pulling velocities (1.8m per sec with a load of 242.5kg), followed by
Zhabotinsky (1.76m per sec with 207.5kg). Once again, both of these lifters
began their pulls with a degree of spinal flexion. None of the lifters using
mild lumbar flexion during heavy lifts displayed any greater incidence of
spinal injury compared with their colleagues.
In other words, it seems that the advice always to lift with a flat or mildly
extended lumbar spine may not be accurate or suitable for everyone. Other
studies of the lifting technique of the 'rounded back' lifters mentioned
above did not reveal that their technique was faulty, but merely an
individual characteristic.Anatomically, we know that deliberate attempts to
extend the lumbar spine may result in a relative decrease in the tension of
the posterior ligaments of the spine, while inadequate muscular contraction
of the erector spinae muscle group may lead to relative increase of tension
in these ligaments.
It seems as if a balance between the tensions in the muscular corset of the
trunk and the associated ligaments offers the optimal way of lifting heavy
loads from the ground, rather than a dogmatic insistence on a flat or mildly
extended lower back. Just as there are genetic differences in other aspects
of musculoskeletal structure and function, so there may be similar
differences which relate to the muscles responsible for stabilising the body
while lifting.
This implies that the role of the coach, trainer or therapist should be to
determine exactly which individual patterns of muscle involvement and joint
movement should be used by a given person, a skill which is probably more
commonly understood among top weightlifting coaches than elsewhere else. (I
have found that use of a lifting belt, contrary to belief among some
trainers, can offer an excellent kinaesthetic way of imparting safe lifting
technique which establishes the optimal balance between muscular activation
and ligamentous tension). It also implies that rigid formulae for lifting
need to be seriously questioned - after all, mild spinal flexion may offer
some individuals a safer, more effective lifting technique than a 'flat'
back. Again, the principle of individualisation seems to remain inescapable.
What do other group members think about current lifting advice? Do we
persist with rigid 'flat back' rules or do we permit greater flexibility of
approach to account for individual idiosyncrasies? What about the evidence
that some highly successful lifters raise very heavy loads while using
definite spinal flexion? (I have not touched on this, but it is not unusual
to observe some top powerlifters also lifting safely with rounded backs - my
powerlifting colleagues might like to comment on this).
-----------------
Dr Mel C Siff
Denver, USA
METAL J
Cool Novice
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Simpel: Je bent gewoon nog niet sterk genoeg om een zwaarder gewicht op techniek te trekken. Dit kan wel goed komen mits je op techniek blijft trainen.
Af en toe gewoon eens kijken waar je max ligt is geen probleem. Ook niet als dat betekent dat je techniek daarbij minder wordt.
Een goeie techniek staat aan de basis van je krachttraining.
Zorg je daar niet voor krijg je bij zwaardere gewichten vanzelf de problemen: Blessures!
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BerryDK
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Lanfeust
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