XXL Nutrition

Contest Log Strudel's Grote CUT log

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5kg Magere kalkoenshoarma (goed gekruid) voor €35.
Elke dag 250 a 500g shoarma naar binnen werken. Lekker man. Gainssss!

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Diner: 2 gehaktballen op 2 halve bolletjes + Italiaanse salade. Sausje gemaakt van 30g Griekse yoghurt met chiptole tabasco, worcestersaus, honing. Met wat rode ui en chilipeper.
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Eten van miss Strudel: Tagliatelli met zelfgemaakte rode pesto, cherry tomaatjes, grana padano en basilicum.
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😭
 
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  • #627
Samenvatting Dag 25 - Zaterdag 1 juli 2023 - Core + Cardio

Startgewicht:109,2kg
Ochtendgewicht:104,8kg

Krachttraining:
Screenshot_20230701-212653_JEFIT.jpg


Cardio:
30 mins fietsen in de gym

Stappen:
7200

Opmerkingen
Niks bijzonders. Wilde eigenlijk een rustdag doen maar cardio kan ik wel gebruiken, dus toch naar naar de gym gegaan. Beetje buik erbij gedaan.

Vooruitgang sinds vorige training:
Nika bijzonders.

Totale macro's over de hele dag :.
Screenshot_20230701-212527_MyFitnessPal.jpg

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Nog even over welke eiwitten je telt en in hoeverre trace eiwitten meetellen.

Voor mezelf van belang omdat ik soms wat probeer met bv kip + bonen + rijst
BB_ zei:
Als je gewoon zorgt dat je iedere maaltijd minstens 30 gram eiwit uit een dierlijke bron haalt (vlees, vis, kwark, whey, ei) en dit ook pre-wo en post-wo en pre-bed doet, ben je al een heel eind.
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Kan iemand uitleggen waarom?

Zit dat in bepaalde aminozuren?
Moet je een drempel aan eiwitten halen?
Is dat biologische beschikbaarheid?

Ik heb zelf wat gegoogled en kom op verschillende plekken andere hoeveelheden en andere redenen tegen.

Dank.

Ik hoop dat @apfelstrudel, deze vraag niet ongepast vindt op deze plaats. Hem kwetsen is het laatstewat ik wil, al vindt hij de gedachte dat dit hem zou kunnen kwetsen waarschijnlijk het meest kwetsend.
 
Steks zei:
En je hoopt hier consensus te vinden? :roflol:
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Eerder hier dan in het Rusland vs. Oekraïne-topic...

Het zal bij mij, als ik weer een beetje ga trainen (hardlopen doe ik alweer), niet zo nauw komen, maar ik zou het ook jammer vinden wat laaghangend fruit niet te grijpen.

Bonen probeer ik te toevoegen uit gezondheidsoverwegingen.
 
Mentat zei:
Kan iemand uitleggen waarom?

Zit dat in bepaalde aminozuren?
Moet je een drempel aan eiwitten halen?
Is dat biologische beschikbaarheid?

Ik heb zelf wat gegoogled en kom op verschillende plekken andere hoeveelheden en andere redenen tegen.

Dank
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Mijn opmerking was meer bedoeld als:
Meeste BB'ers hebben wel 6 eetmomenten op een dag, met pre- en post WO en pre-bed meegerekend. Indien je niet alles exact bij wilt houden, kun je als richtlijn 30 gram eiwit per eetmoment rekenen (dus bijv. 150 gram kipfilet/biefstuk, of 300-500 gram kwark (afhankelijk van welke), 30-35 gram whey) kom je waarschijnlijk wel in de buurt van je behoefte. Ik ga van 2 gram eiwit per kg lichaamsgewicht uit. Er is geen consensus over en je komt verschillende getallen tegen (sommige studies zeggen dat voor krachtsporters/bodybuilders 1,6 gram per kg lichaamsgewicht al voldoende is), maar minstens 2 gram is een vaak gehanteerde standaard en als je er iets boven zit maakt in principe niet uit.

Waarom dierlijke producten? Voor zover ik weet hebben die een completer aminozuurprofiel. Zelf ging ik niet lekker op een vegetarisch dieet v.w.b. hypertrofie.
 
"Setting Protein Intake

As I mentioned earlier, protein contributes a small amount to energy expenditure. During a diet this amount increases for several reasons. First, greater levels of activity increase protein requirements [2] and activity goes up when cardio is performed in addition to weight training during a diet.

Additionally, protein is used more for fuel because less fat and carbs are available due to caloric restriction [3]. Finally, with less dietary carbohydrate and fat available, more glycogen and body fat are utilized; as their stores decrease, this forces the body to rely more on protein as an energy source [4].

Both dietary and body proteins can be used for energy in the face of this energy shortfall. Thus, the body increases its anabolic response to protein to protect against lean mass losses, becoming more efficient in its use of protein [5]. However, this increase in efficiency often does not prevent losses of muscle mass, especially in lean individuals even when weight training [6]. For this reason, it has been hypothesized that consuming a higher intake of protein in the range of 0.8 to 1.2 g/lb (1.8-2.7 g/kg) while dieting could offset losses of body protein to help preserve muscle mass [6-8].

However, this hypothesis has not been comprehensively tested and proven. At this stage, there are studies clearly showing the superiority of higher protein intakes for lean mass preservation in non-overweight resistance-trained populations when comparing:
  • 0.72 g/lb (1.6 g/kg) to 0.36 g/lb (0.8 g/kg) for 1 week [9]
  • 1.05 g/lb (2.3 g/kg) to 0.45 g/lb (1 g/kg) for 2 weeks [10]
  • and 1.09 g/lb (2.4 g/kg) to 0.55 g/lb (1.2 g/kg) for 3 weeks [11].
However, these comparisons of moderate versus low, or high versus low protein intakes don’t actually confirm the hypothesis that high protein intakes are more beneficial than moderate intakes while dieting. To date, only three studies have directly compared moderate intakes to high intakes during an enforced caloric deficit.
  • In 2013 my colleagues and I found that while body composition after dieting was not found to be different while consuming 1.3 g/lb (2.8 g/kg) compared to 0.72 g/lb (1.6 g/kg) after 2 weeks, the higher protein group did report lower levels of fatigue, athlete related life stress and diet dissatisfaction [12].
  • Additionally, researchers performing a study that was published around the same time found that while body composition after dieting was not found to be different while consuming 1.09 g/lb (2.4 g/kg) compared to 0.72 g/lb (1.6 g/kg) for 3 weeks, acute markers of protein synthesis were more elevated in the higher protein group [13].
  • Most recently, researchers reported that after 8 weeks of energy restriction a pre and post workout whey-supplemented group maintained more muscle mass and gained more strength than a pre and post workout carbohydrate-supplemented group, which gained more muscular endurance. On average the whey-supplemented group consumed 1.11 g/lb (2.46 g/kg) of protein per week, and the carb-supplemented group consumed 0.98 g/lb (2.16 g/kg) [14].
Unfortunately, none of these studies are perfectly equipped to answer the question at hand.

In our study we used a well-trained anthropometrist to track changes in skin folds, and while this has adequate precision for tracking actual skinfold thickness changes (measuring body fat), estimations of lean body mass changes have a high degree of error. Also, the second study listed was not on resistance trained participants, and the training they performed was not progressive resistance training, so the results can only be extrapolated so far.

Finally, the last study assessed well-trained lifters performing realistic training for 8 weeks, and used a reliable method of assessing body composition (hydrostatic weighing), but it did have one confounding variable. In this study, not only was a high protein intake compared to a moderately high intake, but also nutrient timing differed between groups. The whey supplemented group consumed the additional protein around training, which could have influenced the outcomes.

So while it is difficult to say with absolute certainty that a higher protein intake will preserve more lean body mass during a diet, what can be said with certainty is that a protein intake in the range of 1.1-1.3 g/lb (2.5-3 g/kg) would not be harmful [15], and that there is evidence that protein intakes in this range (actually higher) appear to be more satiating as they tend to reduce energy intake [16, 17] and may positively affect mood state compared to lower intakes [12].

To conclude, based on the above evidence and my experience as a coach, what probably makes the most sense for protein intake while you’re dieting is somewhere between 1.1 to 1.3 grams per pound (2.3-2.8 g/kg) of body weight."

Eric Helms - The Muscle & Strength Pyramid - Nutrition
 
BB_ zei:
"Setting Protein Intake

As I mentioned earlier, protein contributes a small amount to energy expenditure. During a diet this amount increases for several reasons. First, greater levels of activity increase protein requirements [2] and activity goes up when cardio is performed in addition to weight training during a diet.

Additionally, protein is used more for fuel because less fat and carbs are available due to caloric restriction [3]. Finally, with less dietary carbohydrate and fat available, more glycogen and body fat are utilized; as their stores decrease, this forces the body to rely more on protein as an energy source [4].

Both dietary and body proteins can be used for energy in the face of this energy shortfall. Thus, the body increases its anabolic response to protein to protect against lean mass losses, becoming more efficient in its use of protein [5]. However, this increase in efficiency often does not prevent losses of muscle mass, especially in lean individuals even when weight training [6]. For this reason, it has been hypothesized that consuming a higher intake of protein in the range of 0.8 to 1.2 g/lb (1.8-2.7 g/kg) while dieting could offset losses of body protein to help preserve muscle mass [6-8].

However, this hypothesis has not been comprehensively tested and proven. At this stage, there are studies clearly showing the superiority of higher protein intakes for lean mass preservation in non-overweight resistance-trained populations when comparing:
  • 0.72 g/lb (1.6 g/kg) to 0.36 g/lb (0.8 g/kg) for 1 week [9]
  • 1.05 g/lb (2.3 g/kg) to 0.45 g/lb (1 g/kg) for 2 weeks [10]
  • and 1.09 g/lb (2.4 g/kg) to 0.55 g/lb (1.2 g/kg) for 3 weeks [11].
However, these comparisons of moderate versus low, or high versus low protein intakes don’t actually confirm the hypothesis that high protein intakes are more beneficial than moderate intakes while dieting. To date, only three studies have directly compared moderate intakes to high intakes during an enforced caloric deficit.
  • In 2013 my colleagues and I found that while body composition after dieting was not found to be different while consuming 1.3 g/lb (2.8 g/kg) compared to 0.72 g/lb (1.6 g/kg) after 2 weeks, the higher protein group did report lower levels of fatigue, athlete related life stress and diet dissatisfaction [12].
  • Additionally, researchers performing a study that was published around the same time found that while body composition after dieting was not found to be different while consuming 1.09 g/lb (2.4 g/kg) compared to 0.72 g/lb (1.6 g/kg) for 3 weeks, acute markers of protein synthesis were more elevated in the higher protein group [13].
  • Most recently, researchers reported that after 8 weeks of energy restriction a pre and post workout whey-supplemented group maintained more muscle mass and gained more strength than a pre and post workout carbohydrate-supplemented group, which gained more muscular endurance. On average the whey-supplemented group consumed 1.11 g/lb (2.46 g/kg) of protein per week, and the carb-supplemented group consumed 0.98 g/lb (2.16 g/kg) [14].
Unfortunately, none of these studies are perfectly equipped to answer the question at hand.

In our study we used a well-trained anthropometrist to track changes in skin folds, and while this has adequate precision for tracking actual skinfold thickness changes (measuring body fat), estimations of lean body mass changes have a high degree of error. Also, the second study listed was not on resistance trained participants, and the training they performed was not progressive resistance training, so the results can only be extrapolated so far.

Finally, the last study assessed well-trained lifters performing realistic training for 8 weeks, and used a reliable method of assessing body composition (hydrostatic weighing), but it did have one confounding variable. In this study, not only was a high protein intake compared to a moderately high intake, but also nutrient timing differed between groups. The whey supplemented group consumed the additional protein around training, which could have influenced the outcomes.

So while it is difficult to say with absolute certainty that a higher protein intake will preserve more lean body mass during a diet, what can be said with certainty is that a protein intake in the range of 1.1-1.3 g/lb (2.5-3 g/kg) would not be harmful [15], and that there is evidence that protein intakes in this range (actually higher) appear to be more satiating as they tend to reduce energy intake [16, 17] and may positively affect mood state compared to lower intakes [12].

To conclude, based on the above evidence and my experience as a coach, what probably makes the most sense for protein intake while you’re dieting is somewhere between 1.1 to 1.3 grams per pound (2.3-2.8 g/kg) of body weight."

Eric Helms - The Muscle & Strength Pyramid - Nutrition
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Bij Eric Helms heb ik wel het idee dat zijn studies over redelijk ervaren bodybuilders in een behoorlijke cut gaan en niet over een beetje afvallen naar 10%

Ik kan me wat overzichtsartikelen herinneren waarin hij en Menno Henselman(?) verschil van mening hadden over die optimale hoeveelheid eiwitten en Henselman in veruit de meeste gevallen, en individuele verschillen daargelaten, toch bleef vasthouden aan die 1,6 en dat je met 1,8 of zelfs 2,0 al een marge hebt.
 
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Waarderingen: BB_
"Although animal protein is usually considered to be a more potent stimulator of muscle protein synthesis than plant protein, the effect of protein source on lean mass and muscle strength needs to be systematically reviewed. This study aimed to examine potential differences in the effect of animal vs. plant protein on lean mass and muscle strength, and the possible influence of resistance exercise training (RET) and age. The following databases were searched: PubMed, Embase, Scopus and CINAHL Plus with Full Text, and 3081 articles were screened. A total of 18 articles were selected for systematic review, of which, 16 were used for meta-analysis. Total protein intakes were generally above the recommended dietary allowance at the baseline and end of intervention. Results from the meta-analyses demonstrated that protein source did not affect changes in absolute lean mass or muscle strength. However, there was a favoring effect of animal protein on percent lean mass. RET had no influence on the results, while younger adults (<50 years) were found to gain absolute and percent lean mass with animal protein intake (weighted mean difference (WMD), 0.41 kg; 95% confidence interval (CI) 0.08 to 0.74; WMD 0.50%; 95% CI 0.00 to 1.01). Collectively, animal protein tends to be more beneficial for lean mass than plant protein, especially in younger adults."

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Animal Protein versus Plant Protein in Supporting Lean Mass and Muscle Strength: A Systematic Review and Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials

Although animal protein is usually considered to be a more potent stimulator of muscle protein synthesis than plant protein, the effect of protein source on lean mass and muscle strength needs to be systematically reviewed. This study aimed to examine ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

"Clinical and consumer market interest is increasingly directed toward the use of plant-based proteins as dietary components aimed at preserving or increasing skeletal muscle mass. However, recent evidence suggests that the ingestion of the plant-based proteins in soy and wheat results in a lower muscle protein synthetic response when compared with several animal-based proteins. The possible lower anabolic properties of plant-based protein sources may be attributed to the lower digestibility of plant-based sources, in addition to greater splanchnic extraction and subsequent urea synthesis of plant protein-derived amino acids compared with animal-based proteins. The latter may be related to the relative lack of specific essential amino acids in plant- as opposed to animal-based proteins. Furthermore, most plant proteins have a relatively low leucine content, which may further reduce their anabolic properties when compared with animal proteins. However, few studies have actually assessed the postprandial muscle protein synthetic response to the ingestion of plant proteins, with soy and wheat protein being the primary sources studied. Despite the proposed lower anabolic properties of plant vs. animal proteins, various strategies may be applied to augment the anabolic properties of plant proteins. These may include the following: 1) fortification of plant-based protein sources with the amino acids methionine, lysine, and/or leucine; 2) selective breeding of plant sources to improve amino acid profiles; 3) consumption of greater amounts of plant-based protein sources; or 4) ingesting multiple protein sources to provide a more balanced amino acid profile. However, the efficacy of such dietary strategies on postprandial muscle protein synthesis remains to be studied. Future research comparing the anabolic properties of a variety of plant-based proteins should define the preferred protein sources to be used in nutritional interventions to support skeletal muscle mass gain or maintenance in both healthy and clinical populations."

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

The Skeletal Muscle Anabolic Response to Plant- versus Animal-Based Protein Consumption - PubMed

Clinical and consumer market interest is increasingly directed toward the use of plant-based proteins as dietary components aimed at preserving or increasing skeletal muscle mass. However, recent evidence suggests that the ingestion of the plant-based proteins in soy and wheat results in a lower...
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
 
Mentat zei:
Bij Eric Helms heb ik wel het idee dat zijn studies over redelijk ervaren bodybuilders in een behoorlijke cut gaan en niet over een beetje afvallen naar 10%

Ik kan me wat overzichtsartikelen herinneren waarin hij en Menno Henselman(?) verschil van mening hadden over die optimale hoeveelheid eiwitten en Henselman in veruit de meeste gevallen, en individuele verschillen daargelaten, toch bleef vasthouden aan die 1,6 en dat je met 1,8 of zelfs 2,0 al een marge hebt.
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Mja, zou kunnen. Meeste onderzoeken die ik vind zijn niet echt representatief voor bodybuilders. Indien je dierlijke producten eet, hoef je je in ieder geval niet zo zorgen te maken of je alle essentiële amininozuren binnenkrijgt.
 
Sorry voor de topicvervuiling.
 
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